Petrol and diesel prices.

[stefanovic]

My wife has a 4x4 a she works on construction sites plus our village has been known to get snowed in over winter and so we have one 4x4 to all us to get out for essential supplies. No denial about climate change at all but sometimes you need the right tool for the right job, plus the network or rural charging stations for an electric car is not exactly massive.

Prospect of snow (rare these days) is a classic excuse for owning a 4x4, along with having to get up a hill.
They weren't around on public roads in the winter of 1962-3 or 1983.
As for electric vehicles they are still out sold by gas guzzling 4x4's.

Climate change? Nothing to do with me, Guv.
But like I say, it's not my generation.

 

[Rooter]

Prospect of snow (rare these days) is a classic excuse for owning a 4x4, along with having to get up a hill.
They weren't around on public roads in the winter of 1962-3 or 1983.
As for electric vehicles they are still out sold by gas guzzling 4x4's.

Climate change? Nothing to do with me, Guv.
But like I say, it's not my generation.

LOL, I have an XC90 4x4, its blooming awful in the snow!!!

Remember years ago asking a neighbour to tow my BMW out in his Merc ML 4x4, he got stuck too and we had to find someone with a proper 4x4 (ie a land rover!)

 

[stefanovic]

You have snow these days in Berkshire?

 

[GB72]

LOL, I have an XC90 4x4, its blooming awful in the snow!!!

Remember years ago asking a neighbour to tow my BMW out in his Merc ML 4x4, he got stuck too and we had to find someone with a proper 4x4 (ie a land rover!)

Wife's Subarau has been great in the snow and the Mitsubishi before that. Guess it helps that both companies have some background in off road travel and applied that to their road vehicles.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

Prospect of snow (rare these days) is a classic excuse for owning a 4x4, along with having to get up a hill.
They weren't around on public roads in the winter of 1962-3 or 1983.
As for electric vehicles they are still out sold by gas guzzling 4x4's.

Climate change? Nothing to do with me, Guv.
But like I say, it's not my generation.

I presume you live in a cave and don't drive?

 

[SocketRocket]

I presume you live in a cave and don't drive?

What, with his knuckles!

 

[Curls]

If you’re on this forum then chances are you have a phone in your hand. One that has browsed many weeks worth of content, streamed through power guzzling data centres and bounced off satellites into a handset of thousands of mined and manufactured components.

You have no idea how much energy that represents. Or how much of that was generated by coal or gas. One example among many of the daily consumption of a first world person in 2021. I’ll give you an example.

California has an equivalent population and area the size of Kenya, which isn’t even one of the poorest African countries. California uses 3/5ths of what the entire country of Kenya uses - including manufacturing etc. And it does that...

Gaming.

That’s right. Playing video games. Get your head around that and maybe you’ll realise what it means to consume energy in the first world.

We think we’re reducing emissions? Nope. We just offshored them to China. Every drop of carbon saved here is spent there in the heavy industry that abandoned Europe for coal power and cheap/slave labour. You’re using part of it right now. It’s in your hand.

 

[Rooter]

Gaming is a big chunk, but it’s small fry. Bitcoin and crypto is currently one of the biggest. YouTube, Netflix etc is massive. And there are cool apps that tell you where the Uk power is coming from right now,

 

[Curls]

Gaming is a big chunk, but it’s small fry. Bitcoin and crypto is currently one of the biggest. YouTube, Netflix etc is massive. And there are cool apps that tell you where the Uk power is coming from right now

Absolutely, crypto is criminal but I was hoping to use something people have a better concept of because not everyone understands what’s involved. Dead right on streaming, same issue with data as gaming or phone use.

What’s telling about the grid is how much we are already reliant on French nuclear. Every coal and gas power station taken off line needs this as backup because even if you added a million GW of wind to grid, when it ain’t blowing it’s producing zero. People say we will solve that with battery storage. There’s just no clue what scale all this needs to be on in order for it to work or how much it would cost, it’s completely nonsensical.

 

[Kellfire]

The sooner we go fully nuclear the better.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

The sooner we go fully nuclear the better.

Yep. Something like this.
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-54703204

 

[stefanovic]

I presume you live in a cave and don't drive?

I drive a small stop-start car.
More stop than start.

 

[Patster1969]

No point at all unless you have a high-performance car, and even then, most modern cars will be able to run their best on what you put in. Some older cars will need the 98Ron super.

Fair enough - I'll save the difference then

 

[SocketRocket]

The sooner we go fully nuclear the better.

And Tidal, The Bristol channel has a great potential for tidal lagoons that could produce massive amounts of energy without relying on scarce resources.

 

[bobmac]

Absolutely, crypto is criminal but I was hoping to use something people have a better concept of because not everyone understands what’s involved. Dead right on streaming, same issue with data as gaming or phone use.

What’s telling about the grid is how much we are already reliant on French nuclear. Every coal and gas power station taken off line needs this as backup because even if you added a million GW of wind to grid, when it ain’t blowing it’s producing zero. People say we will solve that with battery storage. There’s just no clue what scale all this needs to be on in order for it to work or how much it would cost, it’s completely nonsensical.

Have a look at vehicle to grid.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

And Tidal, The Bristol channel has a great potential for tidal lagoons that could produce massive amounts of energy without relying on renewables.

They tried that didn't they. Environmentalists objected and it was binned off . Mmmm, because the alternative is so much better

 

[Curls]

Have a look at vehicle to grid.

Have done Bob, and it sounds like a neat solution. But in a winter anticyclone with no wind and no solar for weeks people won’t want to be grounded for the sake of giving their battery power away for a few quid. It’s a short term solution for small outages, doesn’t redress the energy imbalance unfortunately. That’s the time we need power for heat, to stay alive in some cases. What will take priority? Dozens froze to death in Texas when the grid went down, they were burning furniture to stay alive. I don’t think we want to find out that hard way!

 

[bobmac]

Have done Bob, and it sounds like a neat solution. But in a winter anticyclone with no wind and no solar for weeks people won’t want to be grounded for the sake of giving their battery power away for a few quid. It’s a short term solution for small outages, doesn’t redress the energy imbalance unfortunately. That’s the time we need power for heat, to stay alive in some cases. What will take priority? Dozens froze to death in Texas when the grid went down, they were burning furniture to stay alive. I don’t think we want to find out that hard way!

When do we get no sun and wind for weeks, it doesn't happen. Have you ever been to the beach when it's not windy?
The grid went down in Texas because the state saved money by not winterizing their energy systems so the gas and coal supplies went down.

 

[Curls]

When do we get no sun and wind for weeks, it doesn't happen. Have you ever been to the beach when it's not windy?
The grid went down in Texas because the state saved money by not winterizing their energy systems so the gas and coal supplies went down.

Hi Bob, I know the Ercot outage was a myriad of problems, not helped by the abandonment of conventional energy supplies, the failure of renewables to plug the gap and its autonomy from surrounding grids - my point is in winter it’s not an inconvenience to have no heat. It is life and death.

As for anticyclones in the Uk, they’re now called “wind droughts” and with the system we have (and are making worse), only on the spot power generation is of material use. The media tend to be quiet when they happen. They take up the headlines when it’s blowing a gale and wind power is effective. We saw spot prices hit emergency levels for the first time this winter and I expect we will again this. I’m sure people have noticed their energy bills going up, it’s not the oil price that’s driving that it’s the unreliability of renewables and our reliance on Europe nuclear. I think we will see “blackouts” happening here soon, California is ahead of us and a good example of hasty policy.

For the record I am for all forms of clean, renewable energy! I just don’t think we can go all in like we are until there’s enough backup in place. The power will go out. If it happens in summer it will be a pain. If it happens in winter... Not a gamble we should take, thats where I’m coming from.

 

[Rooter]

Hi Bob, I know the Ercot outage was a myriad of problems, not helped by the abandonment of conventional energy supplies, the failure of renewables to plug the gap and its autonomy from surrounding grids - my point is in winter it’s not an inconvenience to have no heat. It is life and death.

As for anticyclones in the Uk, they’re now called “wind droughts” and with the system we have (and are making worse), only on the spot power generation is of material use. The media tend to be quiet when they happen. They take up the headlines when it’s blowing a gale and wind power is effective. We saw spot prices hit emergency levels for the first time this winter and I expect we will again this. I’m sure people have noticed their energy bills going up, it’s not the oil price that’s driving that it’s the unreliability of renewables and our reliance on Europe nuclear. I think we will see “blackouts” happening here soon, California is ahead of us and a good example of hasty policy.

For the record I am for all forms of clean, renewable energy! I just don’t think we can go all in like we are until there’s enough backup in place. The power will go out. If it happens in summer it will be a pain. If it happens in winter... Not a gamble we should take, thats where I’m coming from.

I'm glad I am in the resiliency game! N+1 minimum!