Perceived Forgiveness..... Part II

[Imurg]

that would also mean that you can shape a GI club which we all know isn't true.

Really...?

 

[guest100718]

Ide be willing to bet hard earned cash that its would make no difference what so ever.

 

[Rooter]

This was the point in the previous thread.

I hit my 63's fine, I have no issue hitting them despite their reputation as being unforgiving.

I would counter what you say and answer my own question in as much as a set of G25's would have zero effect on lowering my handicap.

Well your irons obviously work, so no need to change! point was people maybe playing "vanity" clubs. Maybe i have gone off topic slightly, i thought that was the point of the thread..

 

[ger147]

how can a wide sole sort out your swing path and face direction at impact? it doesn't seem to make sense. that would also mean that you can shape a GI club which we all know isn't true.

I can "shape" my G25's just fine - sadly it's rarely if ever on purpose!!

 

[garyinderry]

Really...?

please see my edited post for the missing 't :thup:

 

[Imurg]

please see my edited post for the missing 't :thup:

I was too quick for you!!:ears::ears:

 

[garyinderry]

do these clubs hit it straight or not? If I aim to play a cut or draw with these clubs, will the technology in them fight me and make me hit a straight ball.

 

[harpo_72]

They are not more workable, they are less workable. The peripheral weighting sees the weight around the ball, not behind it, which straightens the flight. The thicker sole puts the CoG lower on the club face making it eaiser to get the ball in the air.

I've seen good ball strikers with h'caps in the 20's, but with a poor short game, and I've seen poor ball strikers with h'caps in the high single figures, but with a good short game.

If you are a decent striker and want to work the ball = blades. If you're decent striker and prefer hitting it straight = GI's. If you're a poor striker you may well need a low CoG & a big sweetspot = GI's.

they do ... because they are more workable, I remember being off 23 and suffering with a slice so I played the whole round set up for a draw and shot 7 over, won the competition by a country mile. GI just don't offer that without you getting extreme. However I do think a full set of GIs are a little too much, they are designed to hit the ball high and anyone who is improving will want to get their flight down at a certain point... so something in between blades and GI is better.

Please see highlighted statement, I did not say it was not possible .. I said you needed to get extreme with them.

 

[Imurg]

do these clubs hit it straight or not? If I aim to play a cut or draw with these clubs, will the technology in them fight me and make me hit a straight ball.

Straighter for certain....it is harder to fade and draw a G15 than a blade.
It can still be done but the wider sole and peripheral weighting will try to straighten it out for you.

This is why, as I said, on a good day there will be little if any difference.
On a bad day, with a given swing, a GI club will outscore a blade by a good few shots as you won't put yourself in as much trouble due to the mis-hits.

 

[Twire]

how can a wide sole sort out your swing path and face direction at impact? it doesn't seem to make sense. that would also mean that you can't shape a GI club which we all know isn't true.

It's not just the wide sole. GI clubs also have a significant offset, and when you take into account the most common swing fault is OTT causing a slice, the offset helps to reduce this.

 

[davidg2010uk]

Plenty of single figure golfers use "GI" clubs. Why make the game harder? Pro's/very low handicap golfers are required to shape irons shot to get close to tight pins so the extra forgiveness is a hindrance to them. Sadly not a problem I'll ever encounter.

 

[garyinderry]

It's not just the wide sole. GI clubs also have a significant offset, and when you take into account the most common swing fault is OTT causing a slice, the offset helps to reduce this.

will this not lock you into poor swing patterns? how can you improve with the stabilizers still in place?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Let's set the record straight from the start. I did have perceived better player clubs in the TM Tour Preffered and to a large degree used them efficiently. However because a) I came into some money so could afford to change b) was going through a major change to swing path last winter and so struggling with my game and c) when I tried all the various models I coveted the G25 came out on the monitor as the best fit for my swing at the time (June) Imade the change

I am now beginning to see a chink of light with the changes which took longer for me to feel comfy with than I hoped especially in competitive play but that is more me than the equipment. The G25 will see me through to single figures and ideally beyond. The thing is as effective and forgiving as they are, I can't get over the look of them. I take my confidence from the work I've done on the range, the knowledge my swing is progressing even if the 0.1's tell a different story and that while it'll never be textbook it is for the greater part beginning to repeat. I don't get much confidence looking on the thick top line of a 7, 8 or 9 iron. As I am not looking to move the ball, and indeed trying to stop as much lateral movement as I can (back to swing path, AoA and club face at impact!) this means the GI effect is actaully a blessing.

My real issues have been short game related (2013 didn't go to plan in this area) and I have some decent wedges so there is no equipment issue here. My argument, vain as perhaps it is, is that the quality of the strike will continue to improve, the short game WILL come on which will save shots anyway and that I'm in a position to be able to swap to something aesthetically better once I get to a position I feel warrants the change. I might well get there and stick with the G25 (yeah right). I have a stead fast belief in my game, my approach to my aims, my tuition and my equipment and think that once the work I did in 2013 and will be finishing over the winter, slots fully into place then I can recover the lost ground from 10.1-11.4 and finally achieve my nirvana of 9.4

 

[garyinderry]

always been intrigued when you say, I have my swing that will never be textbook. I have a funky swing that is in no way text book, but I am wondering, what it is you are working towards.

have you ever posted a swing on here. id love to see what you are talking about.

I take great pleasure watching peoples various swings. I especially love watching how people pitch / chip. from absolute beginners to world class pros. there is always something to learn.

 

[Foxholer]

I've never really grasped the "use these chunky clubs to get to single figures, then change them for something harder to hit" mantra.
If, say, G25's are good enough to get you 9 then they're good enough to get you to 6. All you need to do is shave 3 shots through fewer putts and better chipping...the irons will perform the same shots.

I believe there's a perception that at lower levels there's a 'need' to shape shots and GI clubs are not designed to do that - actually being designed to not do that.

I'm not a great believer in that 'better players shape shots so need player's clubs' approach. I don't believe GI clubs make much real difference to a low capper's score, though the mental attitude of either having/not having them might.

At this time of year, Blades certainly cost me distance from soggy lies and that probably converted to a couple of shots or more a round on Parkland courses - nothing on Links ones though!

 

[Region3]

Why make the game harder?

Good question if you're trying to make a living from the game.

For myself - playing for fun - I'd phrase it "Why make the game less enjoyable?"

Trying to think of a good analogy. I'm sure there are better ones, but...

Why play a computer game on anything other than EASY mode?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

always been intrigued when you say, I have my swing that will never be textbook. I have a funky swing that is in no way text book, but I am wondering, what it is you are working towards.

have you ever posted a swing on here. id love to see what you are talking about.

I take great pleasure watching peoples various swings. I especially love watching how people pitch / chip. from absolute beginners to world class pros. there is always something to learn.

I've posted numerous on here over the years and the vultures all took their meat although to be fair on occasions they were invited to the feast by me. I've deliberately not posted anything I've worked on in 2013 as I did take a confidence hit the last time I posted with lots seemingly ignoring what I posted I was working on and generally knocking it just because.

In simple terms the club was travelling to much in and up an down motion and exiting too far right and leading to a high Monty like finish (without the grouchiness or the talent) and was leading to a myriad of bad shots and playing courses like in military (left/right fashion). Swing was way too shallow and too flippy with the hands. Started off on a more one plane and therefore more rounded swing and LOADS of work done on exiting lower and left which has been the biggest issue. I've controlled the missed to one side of the course and know why I miss. The swing is evolving and is more a one and a half plane with the plan to get to a two plane action this winter and a steeper AoA

 

[CMAC]

if your swing is sound you can hit anything.

If it has unpredictable inconsistent flaws you will slice, hook, thin anything.

 

[patricks148]

I belive you could easily cut a couple of shots off my using more forgining clubs.

True you like the smaller head etc etc, but you must hit the odd bad shot or 3 in every round, the results from a GI irons are far less harsh too.

better player clubs are great, but are you trying to shap shots all the time?

As you know i switched from a MP62 this year to GI clubs and the game is so much easiler with them.

are they easy to shape on the odd occ i need to, no but i can just about manage, the only issue is high and low shots..

the only fault is the go high and straight, not a bad fault i might add.

 

[davidg2010uk]

Good question if you're trying to make a living from the game.

For myself - playing for fun - I'd phrase it "Why make the game less enjoyable?"

Trying to think of a good analogy. I'm sure there are better ones, but...

Why play a computer game on anything other than EASY mode?

Good point, if players clubs make you happy I'd advise anyone to go for them, golf should be enjoyable! I think the point is that by buying players club it won't automatically make you a better golfer, only hard work will do that.