Perceived Forgiveness..... Part II

[One Planer]

Following on from Kid2's post a few weeks back.

Something Homer said on another thread last night got me thinking. Here's the quote:

Have always said the G25 are pig ugly and a means to an end to single figures in 2014

Firstly, I don't want Homer to think I'm singling him out, or picking fault. I know Homer works very closely with his pro and practices often.

It just made me curious as to how many shots people think forgiving clubs are worth to them in relation to their handicap.

Personally, I play what would be considered, pretty much, unforgiving clubs. By no means as unforgivig as a blade, but much less forgiving than Homers G25's. To that end, I like to think my playing handicap is a fair refelction of my playing ability. If I had a set of G25's, would my handicap be lower?

Now. If Homer were to hit his magic handicap figure of 9.4 by over the next few seasons (... Which I hope he does) would that be down to talent or the help from the clubs?

Following on from this.

and then something a bit better looking

Again, I'm not singling out Homer, just using his quote to evidence my thinking.

If he hits 9.4 after a few years, then decides, as per quote, to look at the 'players irons', say S55's in keeping with his Ping bag, would you expect him to struggle to hit them effectively and maintain his handicap bearing in mind the clubs he will be playing will be much less forgiving than his current set?

Secondly. This post isn't like the previous debate of GI vs Player or which is better suited to who. This is more about your preception of your own equipment and ability.

Forgiveness isn't a bad thing in golf clubs. We can all agree on that.

From how I read the above, Homer is hoping for 2 shots worth of 'help', to bridge the gap from 11 to single figures.

How much in terms of handicap, do your clubs mean to you?

Finaly, I know I've used Homer throughout this thread to evidence my thinking. As I say, this isn't a dig at Homer and wish him all the best on his journey to single figures :thup:

 

[Rooter]

My 2p.

As you know Gareth, i was extremely lucky this year and got my clubs free of charge courtesy of GM and TM.

I started with the Rbladez and settled on a shaft combo, but i really liked the look of tour irons a LOT more. so we moved on to trying them. They simply were not as long, not as consistent or forgiving. Now being a mid/high handicapper, thats probably no surprise! But i COULD have said on the day, no i want the tour irons, but we looked at the stats and the choice was clear. Standard chunky monkey Rbladez for me.

Yes looks do play a small part, but really functionality must be the key deciding factor IMHO. I saw a guy playing with beautiful Nike Blades a while back, he couldn't hit them for toffee, but they looked nice!! whats the point in that?

The game is hard enough as it is, choose the tools that make the game as easy as possible for your game.

 

[One Planer]

The game is hard enough as it is, choose the tools that make the game as easy as possible for your game.

So, if I have a set of G25's, my handicap will be lower?

It's as I said in the OP, it not about what's better for you, GI or PLayer. It's what you feel your clubs are worth to you handicap wise.

 

[Imurg]

I've never really grasped the "use these chunky clubs to get to single figures, then change them for something harder to hit" mantra.
If, say, G25's are good enough to get you 9 then they're good enough to get you to 6. All you need to do is shave 3 shots through fewer putts and better chipping...the irons will perform the same shots.

 

[G.U.R]

This is something I have been thinking a lot about since joining the forum as a lot of talk is about getting fitted for clubs and different shaft combo's and grips. I was thinking, will it make a difference? will fitted clubs make a bad player average, an average player good or is it down to the individual. I am playing with a set of Irons bought from a bloke that introduced me to the Club, now would a new set of fitted clubs take my game forward or is it just how much I work at my game? Would like to hear other peoples opinions on the subject.

 

[In_The_Rough]

I am with Gareth here really. I play Mizuno blades because they look great and the feel is amazing. I do still have my old set of Ping G15's as they were custom fitted for me. I just went off them after a while due to their awful looks. I am not convinced that having a set of GI clubs will reduce your handicap anymore than a set of players clubs. There are people that cannot break 100 with GI clubs I bet if they had a set of players clubs there would hardly be any change in their scores.

 

[BTatHome]

I guess the big question about whether they will help is dependant on where you lose shots. If you frequently mis-hit the ball and lose distance/direction then a more forgiving club 'may" elevate this somewhat .... it may also show up your lack of game management instead

Personally if I could find a set of club that went straight and a fair distance every time then I would have them in a shot !

 

[harpo_72]

Last night I took my old tp 18 5 iron to the range, I like to see if I am still able to hit it. Strangely I can, yes its probably 6 iron loft now and its 1/2" shorter than my i15 5 iron, but I can still knock cleanly out there. The point is I learnt on blades and I would suggest anyone who is serious about learning and improving does the same, and then move towards something a little more forgiving when you reach low teens... When I did this I shed shots rapidly and my confidence increased. Shaping shots is only required if you cannot put the ball where you want to play your second from ... or you have a massive swing fault you have to make adjustments.

I know I have probably rubbed a few people up the wrong way with that one, but consistency of shape leads to predictability, predictability just makes life so much easier to play with.

 

[Imurg]

The fact of the matter is that if you're playing well you'll play well with either GI or Player's clubs.
It's what happens when you're not playing well that the difference is observed and here is where the GI clubs will outscore the Player's....

 

[garyinderry]

does a GI club help with direction? surely not!

 

[Imurg]

does a GI club help with direction? surely not!

It can do
A wide sole - like on a G15 for example - will want to hit straight.
How many Player's clubs have a wide sole..?
None, because a Player (apparently) wants to be able to move the ball around.
Give a poor swinger a thin sole and he'll be all over the place compared to the wide sole GI club.

 

[harpo_72]

does a GI club help with direction? surely not!

they do ... because they are more workable, I remember being off 23 and suffering with a slice so I played the whole round set up for a draw and shot 7 over, won the competition by a country mile. GI just don't offer that without you getting extreme. However I do think a full set of GIs are a little too much, they are designed to hit the ball high and anyone who is improving will want to get their flight down at a certain point... so something in between blades and GI is better.

 

[USER1999]

On the other hand, it's a hobby. If I could knock two shots off my h cap playing with ugly chunky clubs, I wouldn't, because I don't give a stuff what I play off. I want to play, using kit I like the look of.

What I would like is a better golf swing, not more forgiving kit.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

My personal opinion is that GI irons would make no difference to my handicap whatsoever. I also don't see the logic in changing to GI clubs to get to single figures and then changing to "better player" clubs when you get there.

 

[Imurg]

What I would like is a better golf swing, not more forgiving kit.

Well you've had that then Mate...!!:rofl::rofl::thup:

 

[Rooter]

So, if I have a set of G25's, my handicap will be lower?

If you hit them further, straighter and more controlled than your 63's, possibly yes!

 

[ger147]

I don't think it makes a huge amount of difference if any at all to what handicap you end up with. I can still slice the ball with a G25 8 iron if I don't swing properly and slightly off centre hits on players irons are get the same results as absolutely spot on hits.

The most noticeable difference for me is the sole width as others have touched on. If I hit one heavy with a G25 iron, I'll come up short but on say, a 6 iron, I might come up 20 yards short. With a bladed 6 iron (I have an MP69 blade I use to practice with) I may come up 50 yards short. But the bottom line is I'm still short and still have to pitch on and then putt.

Over a season I can't see that it would make a significant difference to my handicap as I'm not more likely to hit it fat with the blade.

 

[One Planer]

If you hit them further, straighter and more controlled than your 63's, possibly yes!

This was the point in the previous thread.

I hit my 63's fine, I have no issue hitting them despite their reputation as being unforgiving.

I would counter what you say and answer my own question in as much as a set of G25's would have zero effect on lowering my handicap.

 

[garyinderry]

It can do
A wide sole - like on a G15 for example - will want to hit straight.
How many Player's clubs have a wide sole..?
None, because a Player (apparently) wants to be able to move the ball around.
Give a poor swinger a thin sole and he'll be all over the place compared to the wide sole GI club.

how can a wide sole sort out your swing path and face direction at impact? it doesn't seem to make sense. that would also mean that you can't shape a GI club which we all know isn't true.

 

[Hobbit]

does a GI club help with direction? surely not!

they do ... because they are more workable, I remember being off 23 and suffering with a slice so I played the whole round set up for a draw and shot 7 over, won the competition by a country mile. GI just don't offer that without you getting extreme. However I do think a full set of GIs are a little too much, they are designed to hit the ball high and anyone who is improving will want to get their flight down at a certain point... so something in between blades and GI is better.

They are not more workable, they are less workable. The peripheral weighting sees the weight around the ball, not behind it, which straightens the flight. The thicker sole puts the CoG lower on the club face making it eaiser to get the ball in the air.

I've seen good ball strikers with h'caps in the 20's, but with a poor short game, and I've seen poor ball strikers with h'caps in the high single figures, but with a good short game.

If you are a decent striker and want to work the ball = blades. If you're decent striker and prefer hitting it straight = GI's. If you're a poor striker you may well need a low CoG & a big sweetspot = GI's.