PCC unrealistic or what?

[Foxholer]

...
The bottom line for me is that it is not reactive enough- if it was then low handicappers would have no concern about playing in bad conditions.

That's completely because of an outdated attitude!
If they score (really) badly, the score is simply discounrted as one of their 12 'discarded' scores of the most recent 20!
Far too many 'old' attitudes being applied to the 'new' approach!
And those that are trying to 'protect' their Handicap (HI) are not really being totally 'honest' imo! Though there could well be certain incentives for them to take that (corrupted) approach!

 

[IanM]

Almost Gemma's first words. "More or less". So, not the same but similar.

But console yourselves folks, CSS won't be revived.

Missed the screen shot eh?

No one is expecting any admission of poor delivery or design. Or any changes.

That would require a far higher level of self awareness than that possessed by those involved

 

[Maninblack4612]

Do you think that your subjective opinion on how hard the course is on the day should be the defining factor? Our Winter Alliance are now running their events as "qualifiers" and the PCC was +2 for their first event which was described as about right by all the participants I spoke to. The course was set up to be tough and the scores of the 150 players reflected that.

No, I just think it should reflect more realistically how much harder the course is in difficult conditions.

 

[JonnyGutteridge]

Your Differential is (113/Slope)*(Gross- CR - PCC)
(113/125) * (83 - 71.3 - 0) = 10.6
(113/125) * (83 - 71.3 - 1) = 9.6
So that shows that the PCC is 0.

PCC is not like CSS. It doesn't replace the CR like the CSS replaced the SSS. It is a value from -1.0 thru +3.0 which is added to the CR in the above formula.

Understood, thank you for the explanation. It had been bugging me, as after every round the CR - my Score Differential was coming to a different figure every time. Just different scores, with the occasional PCC of +1.

Playing Devils Advocate more than anything; why is the PCC not a decimal? CR goes to decimals, my score differential to a decimal, my handicap index is a decimal and 95% of course handicap gives a decimal more often than not. Assuming the banding for +1 PCC would be >=0.5 & <1.5, if the PCC is 0.4 for the day, I am losing 0.4 on my score differential? If it is 0.4, I gain a shot. It would enhance accuracy. Again, disclaimer, my fundamental understanding could be wrong.

 

[rosecott]

No, I just think it should reflect more realistically how much harder the course is in difficult conditions.

Do you have a suggestion as to what factors should be taken into account to achieve that?

 

[badgergm]

Understood, thank you for the explanation. It had been bugging me, as after every round the CR - my Score Differential was coming to a different figure every time. Just different scores, with the occasional PCC of +1.

Playing Devils Advocate more than anything; why is the PCC not a decimal? CR goes to decimals, my score differential to a decimal, my handicap index is a decimal and 95% of course handicap gives a decimal more often than not. Assuming the banding for +1 PCC would be >=0.5 & <1.5, if the PCC is 0.4 for the day, I am losing 0.4 on my score differential? If it is 0.4, I gain a shot. It would enhance accuracy. Again, disclaimer, my fundamental understanding could be wrong.

I think that is a good idea. Can’t think of any reason why PCC couldnt be finer granularity.

 

[rulefan]

Playing Devils Advocate more than anything; why is the PCC not a decimal? CR goes to decimals, my score differential to a decimal, my handicap index is a decimal and 95% of course handicap gives a decimal more often than not. Assuming the banding for +1 PCC would be >=0.5 & <1.5, if the PCC is 0.4 for the day, I am losing 0.4 on my score differential? If it is 0.4, I gain a shot. It would enhance accuracy. Again, disclaimer, my fundamental understanding could be wrong.

Presumably because the mathematicians determined that the algorithm doesn't work to that level of accuracy.

 

[Maninblack4612]

Do you have a suggestion as to what factors should be taken into account to achieve that?

Just a bigger adjustment for exceptional conditions. From my own experience, on my course, I know that I'm 4 to 5 shots, or more, worse in very windy conditions. I could manufacture a lower handicap by only playing in calm, dry weather. This shouldn't be possible.

 

[rulefan]

Just a bigger adjustment for exceptional conditions. From my own experience, on my course, I know that I'm 4 to 5 shots, or more, worse in very windy conditions. I could manufacture a lower handicap by only playing in calm, dry weather. This shouldn't be possible.

But if you wish to play in a prestigious tournament and it is very windy your handicap will be too low if high PCCs have been 'protecting' your handicap.

 

[Maninblack4612]

But if you wish to play in a prestigious tournament and it is very windy your handicap will be too low if high PCCs have been 'protecting' your handicap.

Not "protecting", realistically reflecting.

 

[rulefan]

Not "protecting", realistically reflecting.

However, would windy weather scores really affect your handicap? These scores are unlikely to be amongst your best 8.

 

[Deleted member 3432]

However, would windy weather scores really affect your handicap? These scores are unlikely to be amongst your best 8.

They will affect handicap if you play in the wind every week like most members of links courses do.

Difficult putting a general play card in playing in a 3 club wind and pcc doesn't move.....

 

[Maninblack4612]

However, would windy weather scores really affect your handicap? These scores are unlikely to be amongst your best 8.

If you played where I play they'd make up the majority of the 20 ?

 

[rulefan]

If you played where I play they'd make up the majority of the 20 ?

Then perhaps the PCC does reflect the conditions because the wind factor was included correctly in the Course Rating assessment.

 

[Maninblack4612]

Then perhaps the PCC does reflect the conditions because the wind factor was included correctly in the Course Rating assessment.

This doesn't affect the DIFFERENCE between the course difficulty in windy v calm conditions. If it did, there would be days when the PCC would be - 4. Its rarely - 1 & I've never seen it - 2 or more.

 

[IanM]

The wind is no respector of integers, algorithms and subsection 3.2a as amended.

 

[D-S]

Then perhaps the PCC does reflect the conditions because the wind factor was included correctly in the Course Rating assessment.

I thought wind was only assessed at links courses rating, if your course happens to be at the top of a very bare hill it wouldn’t be factored in or have I misunderstood this?

 

[badgergm]

However, would windy weather scores really affect your handicap? These scores are unlikely to be amongst your best 8.

But this completely misses the point I think. The point is that every time you play, a suitable PCC adjustment should mean that whatever the condictions, there is a broadly equal chance that your score will be amongst your best eight.

 

[rulefan]

But this completely misses the point I think. The point is that every time you play, a suitable PCC adjustment should mean that whatever the condictions, there is a broadly equal chance that your score will be amongst your best eight.

PCC depends how individual players performed against their handicap. It is not concerned with wind or rain per se.
If all other players played in all conditions and had appropriate caps then your comment is fair but if this player only plays in good weather his performance against his handicap would be poor.

 

[rulefan]

I thought wind was only assessed at links courses rating, if your course happens to be at the top of a very bare hill it wouldn’t be factored in or have I misunderstood this?

Average daily wind speed is taken into account on all courses and adjustments may be made to obstacle factors as appropriate in addition to the values in the Wind Rating Table.