PCC unrealistic or what?

[Maninblack4612]

Looking back through my last 20 scores showed that the PCC was a minus more often than a plus on my bleak, windswept course. For example, last Saturday there was a stiff breeze blowing which put around four of the par fours out of range, & I hit it further than average for my handicap. The was no PCC increase. I reckon that, without the wind, I would have been at least three shots better, I don't think the wind helped me much at all.

Some of our low handicap players won't play in medals if conditions are bad, wanting to preserve their low handicaps. One, who plays in elite singles opens, swears that the PCC is invariably higher in those events when tough conditions prevail. He gets criticised for "protecting his handicap" but is he? To me it's more an indication that the system for calculating PCC doesn't work.

Is the problem the fact that the higher handicaps have too much influence on the PCC? For example, someone off a high index who barely gets the ball airborne, is unlikely to be badly effected by wind yet his score is part of the calculation of PCC.

Whatever the problem, the fact is that a person can maintain a lower index by choosing carefully the conditions in which he plays. This shouldn't be possible.

 

[RichA]

Even though the handicap system is part of the basic concept of amateur golf, I can accept a lower handicap player's occasional gripe that that my best round may possibly go 10 under my high handicap once in a blue moon, therefore giving me an unfair advantage.
To suggest that my average round might adversely affect their personal battle with the golf course and their HI seems to be stretching the excuses a touch.

If someone only plays when the conditions are perfect for them, maybe they know that they aren't as elite as they like people to think they are.
If people are criticising him, then he's already lost that battle and he might as well just get on with it and get ready to embrace mid-handicap golf. He might win more often.

 

[jim8flog]

I think that the trouble is likely to be low handicappers not fully appreciating how the WHS works and still thinking terms of not getting a 0.1 increase. The sooner they realise that if they shoot to or better than handicap at least 8 times in the last 20 rounds their handicap is not going to go up and even if it does it is not likely to go up by much and will come back down again as soon as they put in a good score. If they cannot shoot to or better than their handicap in 8 out of 20 rounds then they probably have a wrong handicap in the first place.

Problem 2 if the low handicappers do not play in those conditions it is even more likely that the PCC will go up.

 

[IanM]

the fact is that a person can maintain a lower index by choosing carefully the conditions in which he plays. This shouldn't be possible.

I guess that is up to the individual.... they are just staying indoors when the weather is iffy.

I guess where folk are very consistent, the odd bad round will not make any difference, where the trend is deteriorating, they'll be keen to maximise their chances of doing ok. But Jim and Rich make a good point about "embracing the reality"

Just to contrast -... my 4 Ball Partner (who lives 50 miles away) sent me a text at the weekend saying "I see the weather down your way is bad. Don't you dare cry off the medal. I want you to get a few shots back for the Bideford Bay Pairs in July!!"

I didn't disappoint! Net 79. Nothing to do with the weather, more about me playing like a wally!

 

[Deleted member 1147]

I think it's hard for us mortals to comprehend what it's like for an "elite" amateur, I feel like a small change in conditions can make a big difference to my 3 handicap, but imagine if you're trying to maintain a low handicap to qualify for a WAGR event.
I wouldn't play if I feared one bad round, in terrible conditions, may lead to an increase and a missed opportunity to get in something important.

My mate's handicap went up the other week after shooting a level par & 4 under gross in one week, because he knocked off a 5 under and a 2 under. In the old days I believe he would have buffered and gotten a cut.

 

[2blue]

Even though the handicap system is part of the basic concept of amateur golf, I can accept a lower handicap player's occasional gripe that that my best round may possibly go 10 under my high handicap once in a blue moon, therefore giving me an unfair advantage.
To suggest that my average round might adversely affect their personal battle with the golf course and their HI seems to be stretching the excuses a touch.

If someone only plays when the conditions are perfect for them, maybe they know that they aren't as elite as they like people to think they are.
If people are criticising him, then he's already lost that battle and he might as well just get on with it and get ready to embrace mid-handicap golf. He might win more often.

AND....... HERE.. ^^^^^^ you have it. There's a lot of golfers who are far too 'precious' about their h/cap with several being on here. As I've said before, a golf H/cap is for all seasons & is one of the reasons that RickG received such respect.

 

[Bdill93]

I think it's hard for us mortals to comprehend what it's like for an "elite" amateur, I feel like a small change in conditions can make a big difference to my 3 handicap, but imagine if you're trying to maintain a low handicap to qualify for a WAGR event.
I wouldn't play if I feared one bad round, in terrible conditions, may lead to an increase and a missed opportunity to get in something important.

My mate's handicap went up the other week after shooting a level par & 4 under gross in one week, because he knocked off a 5 under and a 2 under. In the old days I believe he would have buffered and gotten a cut.

If you cant consistently maintain it 8/20, then you're not good enough surely?

 

[RichA]

Out of interest, where is PCC for any given round recorded? It isn't shown on any of my rounds on the MyEG app.

 

[JonnyGutteridge]

With WHS I think people should be less attached to their handicap than they would have been under the previous system.

It used to be quite personal... the handicap you had was a reflection of years of golf, arguably everyone had a story about the ups and downs over the years. So people protected their handicap a bit, for pride or vanity (keeping it artificially low) and others for competition wins and prizes (keeping it artificially high).

With the new system, it can change so frequently that it’s not worth worrying about as much. It’s a brief snapshot of your golfing history, where lack of form, a few chokes, an injury can shift it notably one way or another.

Seems to be a habit at my club of people putting in silly numbers of supp cards shooting 67s and 68s to maintain a + handicap, only to shoot 85 in the medal. That’s as odd as people not playing in comps on bad weather days to avoid increases!!

 

[JonnyGutteridge]

Out of interest, where is PCC for any given round recorded? It isn't shown on any of my rounds on the MyEG app.

It shows on the website, not the app (weirdly?).

 

[BiMGuy]

Just looked at my short HC history. The PCC has been 0 for every round.

Now, I play on a very open windy course. Which, can be very difficult if the wind is blowing hard in the wrong direction. So I'm surprised to see the PCC at 0.

Does the number of scores entered effect the calculations?

Yesterday for example. It was quite windy here. And unusually gusty. The wind speed was 20mph with gusts up to 25/30mph. The weather got worse into the evening with sustained high winds and heavy rain.

At 8pm there was only two of us on the course. Looking at the comp scores and tee sheet earlier in the day, it doesn't appear that it was very busy yesterday. But the course was playing 3 to 4 shots harder than (in my opinion) it normally would be. Yes the PCC was still 0.

 

[Maninblack4612]

Out of interest, where is PCC for any given round recorded? It isn't shown on any of my rounds on the MyEG app.

The only place I can find it is in "My Golf" on Master Scoreboard

 

[abjectplop]

Compared to CSS where you'd regularly see it go up 1, 2 or 3 shots (or even reductions only), the PCC just doesn't change in my experience. You can therefore understand a scratch player wanting to pick and choose when they play as the difference is massive compared to CONGU. I don't think PCC is going to reflect how difficult a windy course, particularly a tight links can be.

 

[Voyager EMH]

I've yet to see a fully explicit and official explanation of how PCC is calculated. Rather gives the impression that its a bit hush-hush. From what I have read, it has nothing directly to do with the weather. It seems to be based on "expected scores". We had a PCC of +1 on Saturday. Weather on the day was not difficult to play in. Lots of rain the day before and wet fairways, no run and no placing is what caused higher than "expected scores" with the course "playing long" and the wet rough quite severe. I battled on and beat my 8th best score by one shot (effectively two shots with PCC) and cut 0.2 off my HI.
All change tomorrow when I lose my very best score from my last 20. I am likely to go up a few decimals unless I match that best score of last year. I've already worked out the worst case scenario of going up by 0.6. I can limit that damage by beating what is at present my 9th best score. That is definitely do-able. PCC seems somewhat irrelevant to me in this case with regard to protecting handicap or otherwise. I just go out do to the best I can in all conditions.

 

[RichA]

It shows on the website, not the app (weirdly?).

Thank you. That is weird.
Never logged onto the website before. How difficult could it be to add those extra couple of informative fields and the worm to an extra page on the app?

 

[IanM]

they are present on the Welsh App. (not that that helps)

 

[The Fader]

I too believe your handicap is for all seasons and that handicap protection both of the vanity and sandbagging types occurs far more often that we would like to believe. I recently pulled my son up for not putting cards in because he felt his game was "off".

Purely anecdotal and slighly O/T but the WHS is primarily based on the American way of doing things.

I've played with quite a few of our buddies from across the pond over the years - most alleged single figure golfers never got close to breaking 80 (without Mulligans and breakfast balls!) whilst most mid handicappers had no problem shooting in the 80's. What does that tell you? It tells me the system is probably flawed and open to manipulation.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

If you cant consistently maintain it 8/20, then you're not good enough surely?

The new handicaps of the elite players are so low, any score which isn’t excellent can ruin a handicap, and thus the chances of qualifying for big events.
The lad I quoted played off plus 3, so isn’t even the lowest at my club, and so isn’t playing all of the biggest events (Brabazon, Lytham Trophy etc). Those who do rarely play club competitions, just travel round playing the biggies.

 

[Rlburnside]

I played with 3 guys from Texas at Royal Dornoch all supposedly single figures, I’m off 17 and they were no better than me. ?

 

[rulefan]

I think it's hard for us mortals to comprehend what it's like for an "elite" amateur, I feel like a small change in conditions can make a big difference to my 3 handicap, but imagine if you're trying to maintain a low handicap to qualify for a WAGR event.
I wouldn't play if I feared one bad round, in terrible conditions, may lead to an increase and a missed opportunity to get in something important.

It's very unlikely that 1 score would make a difference.
IMO Vanity cappers don't really deserve to be in 'important' events.