rosecott
Money List Winner
And continuing the misinformation that SI is necessarily related to the difficulty or otherwise of playing the hole to par
Par 71
- Thread starter pieface
- Start date
And continuing the misinformation that SI is necessarily related to the difficulty or otherwise of playing the hole to par
Orikoru
Tour Winner
Our longest par 4 is the 2nd, 470 off the whites. I have absolutely zero chance of ever reaching it in two, but it's stroke index 3, so currently I get two shots on it, but the next time I get cut I'll lose one of them.
Ironically though, over the winter it hasn't been in play at that length - they've had to put a temporary 1st hole in, and made the 2nd hole nearly 200 yards shorter as a result. So all winter I've had a two shot hole that's only 280 yards! Happy days. :rofl:
Ironically though, over the winter it hasn't been in play at that length - they've had to put a temporary 1st hole in, and made the 2nd hole nearly 200 yards shorter as a result. So all winter I've had a two shot hole that's only 280 yards! Happy days. :rofl:
jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
The SIs at our course are all set upon the basis of difficulty based upon competition scores and not match play. We tried a two card system but it did not work out.
What is the 2 card system? I've never heard of that.
This is what England Golf recommend.
https://www.englandgolf.org/page.aspx?sitesectionid=337&search=
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
On our 474yd dogleg par 4 with blind approach, many players who might be able to reach the green in two (on their best day) will just pop something like a 5i over the top to ensure they stay short of the greenside bunkers that flank the front left and right of the green as it is difficult to get the line right. Depending on their drive that gives them between a 40yd pitch or bump and run; or a 100yd approach.
jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
The original recommendation (and still is) was to have two cards. One with SIs set for matchplay and the other with SIs set for strokeplay.
See the other recommendation for stableford play when you follow your link
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rosecott
Money List Winner
What happens in your matchplay events?
In the example scorecard shown in the link you gave, SI 1 was on the 18th hole.
Perhaps there is a case for a standard matchplay scorecard which satisfies all the criteria listed in the CONGU manual to be taken into account.
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mikejohnchapman
Challenge Tour Pro
The simple answer is because your club management want it to be.
The allocation of par is more an art rather than a science - all par rating are recommended to be in a range of yardages. So for example the old adage that a par 3 must be less than 250 yards doesnt really apply. You could have a 260 yard par 3 or a 240 yard par 4 depending on what your management want.
Allocation of SSS is different and is designed to be more of a science (though judgement still applies). On my course we have 3 mens tees - all par 72. However, standard scratch is 70, 72 and 74 and there is almost 800 yards different between the yellow tees and the blue. As far as scoring goes a radically different proposition.
The new course rating system will build on this as your handicap will flex depending so will make your score reflects the course during play rather than only for handicap.
A lot of course seem to like their medal tee SSS to match par - not sure why in all honesty but several seem to adjust ar to achieve this.
jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
Please remember the England golf guide is a recommendation only.
I was not involved when the decision was taken to switch back to SIs based upon difficulty but I am pretty sure it was because of the large number of complaints about having SIs based upon match play when by far the vast majority of competitions at our club are Stableford competitions (2-3 a week every week). Plus one knockout comp which is Stableford match (this one comp attracts more entries than any other comp we hold).
We have had no complaints from our own members in our own match play knockouts about the SIs and results show that it has very little impact on the results.
As said we had two cards one for stroke play and one for match play when the system was first introduced. However we had the usual problem of members not reading the notices and using the wrong cards for their matches so we abandoned the 2 card system
pieface
Medal Winner
Well gents I've been today and it's safe to say I was talking rubbish with the original past.
I hit the longest drive I've ever hit on the aforementioned par 4 which just trickled into the light rough and left me about 200 yards to the pin. Hit my 4 iron to within 20 yards, pretty sure I can reach it in 2 from the fairway!
I hit the longest drive I've ever hit on the aforementioned par 4 which just trickled into the light rough and left me about 200 yards to the pin. Hit my 4 iron to within 20 yards, pretty sure I can reach it in 2 from the fairway!
bobmac
Major Champion
If a hole is 480yds long, what difference does it make what the par is?
HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
In my mind no but what prompted the question? For me it's a three shot hole all day long. If it's a par 4 (not sure it should be but for arguments sake) then I'll hit the green in three, two putt and take a net par with an inevitable shot there. As a short par 5, I may not get a shot but again hit a green in regulation, two putt and get out of town
bobmac
Major Champion
So the par of the hole has nothing to do with your score
It's the game isn't it? We are all aiming to par each hole. If you get shots then that helps but we are aiming to reduce our handicaps. I fully get what you are suggesting but the challenge is to better ourselves each time and we need to think that is achievable as much as possible.
Why have a par for each hole at all? Why not just have par for the course and nothing more?
HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
Yes and no. Of course I'm aware of par, but sometimes I am realistic enough to realise that I'm unlikely to par a tough, long par four regularly and will struggle to hit it in regulation, so no, par has nothing to do with the score. It'll be a three shot hole, hope to get it close and make a putt. If not, net par, no damage and keep moving on
bobmac
Major Champion
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Every course has one, every hole has one. The horse has bolted. It is fundamental to the game as it exists now. But you know this of course.
bobmac
Major Champion
I do
But you can change your approach to playing each hole.
If you get a new captain at your club and he changes all the par 5s into par 4s, what difference would it make to the course?
HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
In medal play, I am more aware of my score to my handicap than I am against gross par. On my own course, I know what holes I can perhaps press at if I need a par (net birdie) if I'm adrift and which holes are a case of keeping it in play off the tee, take net par and move on. Of course in the real world, the technique doesn't always align to the sensible thinking but that's why I'm off what I am
