Val
Ryder Cup Winner
Magic course, really enjoyed it
Magic course, really enjoyed it
Liverbirdie
Ryder Cup Winner
larmen
Head Pro
I learned today that I can reach a short par 5 on a good drive (200ish).
I need 1 1/2 good shots after that, so if the 2nd went a bit bad it might be enough to flush the 3rd. I topped an 5i to 115 but another 5i after that to 160 had me on the fringe on our long 5 today.
I need 1 1/2 good shots after that, so if the 2nd went a bit bad it might be enough to flush the 3rd. I topped an 5i to 115 but another 5i after that to 160 had me on the fringe on our long 5 today.
garyinderry
Ryder Cup Winner
nickjdavis
Head Pro
We start with a par 5 and there is a possibility that the 18th will be extended in the next year or so to become a par 5, which would mean we finish with back to back par 5's.
I can also attest that a par 5 opening hole followed by a tough par 3 is not the best recipe for a good pace of play during the early holes!! (especially when its followed by a short par 4 where you have to let players get on the green before teeing off and then a very difficult par 3 which has a significant amount of water.
...and for those who said that clubs need to tell their members to abide by their tee times...you are living in dreamland...its like herding cats.
We've had two weeks of blissful quick golf after restrictions were eased with 2 balls going off at 10 minute intervals. Everyone said what a joy it was. We took away the starters a week or so ago (all club volunteers giving up their own time) and instantly the members treated it like they could tee off whenever they liked and immediately started whinging about slow play because they were instantly up the arse of the group in front. Clueless.
I can also attest that a par 5 opening hole followed by a tough par 3 is not the best recipe for a good pace of play during the early holes!! (especially when its followed by a short par 4 where you have to let players get on the green before teeing off and then a very difficult par 3 which has a significant amount of water.
...and for those who said that clubs need to tell their members to abide by their tee times...you are living in dreamland...its like herding cats.
We've had two weeks of blissful quick golf after restrictions were eased with 2 balls going off at 10 minute intervals. Everyone said what a joy it was. We took away the starters a week or so ago (all club volunteers giving up their own time) and instantly the members treated it like they could tee off whenever they liked and immediately started whinging about slow play because they were instantly up the arse of the group in front. Clueless.
Eagle2
Member
This is a good question and my view has definitely changed over the years. I dreaded them at my first course - 3 of them (2nd, 14th & 16th) and they all bordered the course... distance wasn’t the issue, it was keeping them out of the farmers field.
My last course started with one and I just loved that feeling on medal morning writing a 9 on the card wishing I was still in bed. As I have improved I have started to see them as a good scoring hole, weirdly we have three in a row on the front 9 which can definitely determine if it is going to be a good day or not.
My last course started with one and I just loved that feeling on medal morning writing a 9 on the card wishing I was still in bed. As I have improved I have started to see them as a good scoring hole, weirdly we have three in a row on the front 9 which can definitely determine if it is going to be a good day or not.
Grant85
Head Pro
There's certainly a perception that golf courses should start with one or two shorter par 4s that give people a chance to 'get into the round'.
Historically, courses finished with 'tougher' holes, generally longer par 4s - my feeling is this was due to matchplay being the prevalent form of play and designers (generally pros) would want a tough finishing stretch to separate the better players in the final stages of a match.
More recently designers have often favoured risk reward par 5s as a finishing hole. I guess with the advent of televised tournaments, this can give the prospect of a climatic finish with players making Eagle on the final hole.
It seems par 3s are always for the middle of the round and it is genuinely seen as a weakness or quirk for courses to start or finish with one. Royal Lytham perhaps being one of the few courses in Championship golf with an opening Par 3.
Historically, courses finished with 'tougher' holes, generally longer par 4s - my feeling is this was due to matchplay being the prevalent form of play and designers (generally pros) would want a tough finishing stretch to separate the better players in the final stages of a match.
More recently designers have often favoured risk reward par 5s as a finishing hole. I guess with the advent of televised tournaments, this can give the prospect of a climatic finish with players making Eagle on the final hole.
It seems par 3s are always for the middle of the round and it is genuinely seen as a weakness or quirk for courses to start or finish with one. Royal Lytham perhaps being one of the few courses in Championship golf with an opening Par 3.
D
Deleted Member 1156
Guest
It doesn't bother me in the slightest what par of hole a course starts or finishes with as long as it has either 7 or 16 other holes as well 
Grant85
Head Pro
That's a good point about pace of play.
I guess another reason why par 3s are generally not ideal in the opening few holes.
My feeling is that Par 5s cause problems for a lot of golfers as people will always play their longest club as a second shot - often a fairway wood or 3 hybrid - even if they will never reach the green. This obviously creates potential for bringing trouble into play, rather than thinking of the best tactical area to play to.
Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
From a pace of play perspective a par 3 as the first hole is perfect.
You cant start until the green is clear whether you like it or not.
It provides that 10 minute gap without the need for marshalling
Admittedly, not everyone likes a par 3 to start but it does set the gaps early.
You cant start until the green is clear whether you like it or not.
It provides that 10 minute gap without the need for marshalling
Admittedly, not everyone likes a par 3 to start but it does set the gaps early.
Bigfoot
Tour Rookie
Both 9 s of Envilles Highgate course start and finish with a par 5.
larmen
Head Pro
My scores dropped massively this month since I left the 3w and 3h in the car. Not only on the par 5 but also par 4 holes.
Grant85
Head Pro
Same for me last year. Didn't leave them in the car, but play a mid, or even a short iron for 2nd shot on the par 5s.
Longer par 4s have a bit more room to miss, so often worth taking them on, but par 5s are tighter at the green.
larmen
Head Pro
You have more self control than me. if I am 160 or more out I usually hit a 3h but recently I just topped it and it goes nowhere, leaving me another 160 shot and an extra shot on the card.
Now taking a 5i it either goes 150ish on a good shot, but a bad one still goes 80 leaving me an 80 in and still an opportunity. But with the hybrid or wood in the bag I 'always' took the chance of reaching, but I never reached.
It's basically the same strategy for both of us, take the longest club possible that if you miss it still gives you a chance with the next one.
I just have to force it before the round.
HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
It depends on a couple of things though. Our first is on 168 off the yellows and a much tougher 228 off the whites. Given that members have the choice to play off either tee, a two ball off the yellows may get done in less than 10 minutes while a four ball off the white may take 12-15 minutes depending on where they hit their tee shots and how much faffing there is
HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
Just pointing out to Imurg that a par 3 isn't a given for a perfect 10 minute gap. It's a given that a 2 ball will go faster than a 4. Our second, is actually an opposite with a par 5 second so in effect it then gives the groups a chance to spread a little
Shooter McPowick
Head Pro
I was a junior member at Amanzimtoti golf club near Durban in South Africa while growing up. Long par 5 opener fairway slopes left to right all the way up to a 2 tier green. 18th is a copy of Sawgrass’ 18th with a beach/lagoon OB all down the left side... was tough but fond memories
HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
In an ideal world but how often does that happen. Both hit the green off the yellows, two putt and move on - arguably in less than 8 minutes. The 4 go right (where we have OOB) or left (deep rough and a pond) short right towards a line of trees and say two go straight. Potentially at least one reload, some time looking for the balls "in case" and then some time looking for the ball towards the trees. No guarantee of hitting the green in two, so playing three. All the usual faffing on the green and suddenly it's up towards 15 minutes. Not ideal, but seen it happen (and probably been responsible over the years too). Simply pointing out that different scenarios can have a distinct effect on the initial pace. However with the par 5 second, it does seem to even itself and flow from there
Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
The point is that there is an instant 1 hole gap between groups.
Pace of play can't really begin until you've actually started so the actual start times become superfluous as you'll probably be a minute or two "late" because the green hasn't cleared.
Once you're away you have that spacing......and let's face it..I doubt there's many clubs that start with a par 3 like yours that adds 50% to the distance yellow to white....
Pace of play can't really begin until you've actually started so the actual start times become superfluous as you'll probably be a minute or two "late" because the green hasn't cleared.
Once you're away you have that spacing......and let's face it..I doubt there's many clubs that start with a par 3 like yours that adds 50% to the distance yellow to white....
HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
I agree about the last part. I remember when we had the first meet there and everyone milled about the yellows thinking this doesn't look too shabby until I directed them to the whites. I do think allowing members the choice of which tee they use does add an extra layer to getting people off equally spaced. It does seem to work in practice with the par 5 second
