Pace Of Play - what can be done to improve it

[Hacker Khan]

As a few others have mentioned, in reality unless the governing bodies and the individual clubs prioritise this then very little, if anything will happen. There have been many articles before about slow play in many magazines, lots and lots of very sensible and good suggestions on here and in said articles. But as with a lot of challenges that golf faces now, there seems to be a myriad of different governing bodies and organisations all trying to do well intentioned and in some cases successful initiatives, but they don't seem to have any overall coordination. There seems to be a lack of proper leadership within the game with bodies like the R&A frozen by inertia a lot of the time and scared of 'upsetting tradition'. Or mostly focusing on how the professional game can generate more money for those at the elite level, leading to an ever increasing gap between the health of the professional game and the participation at amateur level.

Then within most clubs the culture and mindset is that they are much more bothered about if you have your shirt untucked or if your trousers you wear in the clubhouse has rivets on them, rather than if you get round the course in a certain time. Look on any golf clubs web site and you will find mountains of dictats on what can/can't wear, what you can't do with your mobile phone and where the club deems to allow you to use one. At clubs itself there are plenty of signs on where you can and can't park, where you can change your shoes etc etc. But how many clubs emphasise the pace of play as being one of the most important things you need to know when playing a round, or are they seemingly more worried about the colour of your socks if you wear shorts?

It need a complete change of mindset by clubs and governing bodies for anything to happen and to be honest, I can't see that happening.

 

[FairwayDodger]

Id be well pissed if I got penalised 2 shots because of others. I'd argue the toss if I had a reason, and all I can see is that it would 'possibly' deter you from playing in future comps and if that 2 shot penalty took you out of the buffer zone or even a cut!

Think its its unreasonble for them to do that!

Totally agree with that. How often have you been in a group with one or two slow players who have dragged the round out to stupid time. I usually end up hurrying to compensate and playing worse anyway.

I'd argue about it as well and quite possibly change clubs if they were applying such a crude and unfair rule.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Sorry but the club wouldn't be able to appl y penalties like that based on finishing time so I'm calling it nonsense and story telling

 

[Fish]

Sorry but the club wouldn't be able to appl y penalties like that based on finishing time so I'm calling it nonsense and story telling

Don't mix your words and hold back, will you :smirk:

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I love this debate - one that has been going on for a century since the darned Americans introduced 4 ball golf - in his book Harry Vardon railed against 4ball golf for having the potential for being soooo slow.

 

[Slab]

Sorry but the club wouldn't be able to appl y penalties like that based on finishing time so I'm calling it nonsense and story telling

Pretty sure the R&A say that committees can add these penalties

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Pretty sure the R&A say that committees can add these penalties

For individual players with justifiable cause and after warnings whilst playing

 

[Slab]

For individual players with justifiable cause and after warnings whilst playing

To whole groups too (not that I think they should be able to mind)

I'll look for the link...



edit to add:

Naturally they do need to warn etc but each player in a late group can have a penalty added

As I say I don’t agree with it and if handed a penalty like this as part of my defence I’d challenge the committee on their own responsibilities re start times, pin positions & course set-up but here it is

My bold highlight

Pace of Play

It is understandable that Clubs, public courses, resorts and competition organisers may have differing views on what constitutes acceptable pace of play. However, it is a fact that slow play detracts from the enjoyment of the game for many golfers, and few golfers are heard to complain about play being too quick.

Rule 6-7 governs in the event of slow play. It provides that “The player must play without undue delay and in accordance with any pace of play guidelines that the Committee may establish”. The penalty for a breach of Rule 6-7 is loss of hole in match play and two strokes in stroke play, and for a repeated offence, disqualification. However, Note 2 under Rule 6-7 states:

“For the purpose of preventing slow play, the Committee may, in the conditions of a competition (Rule 33-1), establish pace of play guidelines including maximum periods of time allowed to complete a stipulated round, a hole or a stroke.
In match play, the Committee may, in such a condition, modify the penalty for a breach of this Rule as follows:
First offence – Loss of hole;
Second offence – Loss of hole;
For subsequent offence – Disqualification
In stroke play, the Committee may, in such a condition, modify the penalty for a breach of this Rule as follows:
First offence – One stroke;
Second offence – Two strokes;
For subsequent offence – Disqualification.”

It is a matter for the Committee in charge of a competition to formulate its own pace of play guidelines, although in practice the nature of such a condition will be dependant on the number of Committee members available to implement it.

For example, at The Open it is possible to adopt a hole by hole pace of play guideline and, subsequently, shot by shot timing procedures if a group is out of position on the course and in excess of the prescribed time limit (see Appendix G for the full Pace of Play condition adopted at The Open).

Obviously, it is unlikely that such a policy could be successfully adopted at Club level. Therefore, if the Committee is having problems with pace of play, it may be necessary to formulate a simple condition whereby the Committee establishes a time limit that it considers is more than adequate for players to complete the round and/or a certain number of holes (which will vary depending on numbers in groups and form of play). In the circumstances where a group exceeds the prescribed time limit and is out of position on the course (see Appendix G for definition of “out of position”) each player in the group is subject to penalty.

As an example of this form of condition, a Committee may decide that a group of three playing stroke play should not take more than 1 hour 45 minutes to complete nine holes and stipulate that if they exceed this limit, and are out of position, all three players are subject to a penalty of one stroke. In addition, the condition may state that if they fail to complete the second nine holes in the prescribed time and are still out of position all three players are subject to a further penalty of two strokes.

The problem with adopting such a policy where each player in the group is penalised for a breach of the condition is that it does not consider individual responsibility for the delay and a player who is blameless may be penalised. However, this type of policy may assist in terms of a group’s self-regulation with slower players being encouraged to improve their pace of play.

The time limits prescribed in the condition must take account of the form of play (e.g. a foursome should be quicker than a single) and the age of those playing (e.g. a “junior” should be quicker than a “senior”). In addition, the climate and the course itself, with regard to factors such as length, severity, layout, etc. will have a significant bearing on what the Committee decides is a reasonable time for players to take.

In major Amateur competitions and Professional events, the Committee may wish to establish a hole by hole pace of play guideline. It is impossible to give specific recommendations as to the times that should be applied to each hole, but a number of factors should be taken into consideration. Firstly, while Professional golfers cannot be given unlimited time to complete a round, it has to be recognised that they are playing for their livelihood and, therefore, generally more time may be afforded to play than would be the case in Amateur events.
More specifically, if in an elite Amateur or Professional event the Committee has decided on standard times for par 3’s, par 4’s and 5’s (e.g. 11, 14 and 17 minutes respectively), adjustments should be made to take into account severity/simplicity of a particular hole and walking distances between the green of the hole last played and the next tee.

While a pace of play condition may assist in monitoring the speed of play and will identify the slow player, not all slow play is the fault of the players themselves. A Committee can cause play to grind to a halt by letting too many players on to the course too quickly. It is important that the Committee allow sufficient time in between each starting time to enable the groups to stretch away from one another so that players are not waiting on every shot. In addition, where possible it is advisable for a Committee to introduce “Starter’s Gaps” where every so often a starting time is left blank so that a build up on the course is not necessarily perpetuated all the way through the field.

Also, overly severe course set-up may contribute to the pace of play being slower than desirable. In particular, time spent putting can be increased if hole positions are too difficult.
Identifying the most suitable pace of play guidelines and the ideal starting times may be a case of trial and error. However, when the correct methods are established they can greatly assist in the enjoyment of the game for all concerned in the competition. For more guidance on pace of play for general play, see Appendix G.

 

[Spuddy]

To whole groups too (not that I think they should be able to mind)

I'll look for the link...

Here it is
http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-A...unning-a-Competition.aspx?chapter=5&section=6

 

[Deleted member 15344]

To whole groups too (not that I think they should be able to mind)

I'll look for the link...

http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-A...unning-a-Competition.aspx?chapter=5&section=6

This is the link in the R&A and its full of conditions and warnings and requirements for committee members to be present etc etc

 

[Spuddy]

http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-A...unning-a-Competition.aspx?chapter=5&section=6

This is the link in the R&A and its full of conditions and warnings and requirements for committee members to be present etc etc

This is the paragraph that relates to club competitions (where there aren't referees to put people on the clock etc)

if the Committee is having problems with pace of play, it may be necessary to formulate a simple condition whereby the Committee establishes a time limit that it considers is more than adequate for players to complete the round and/or a certain number of holes (which will vary depending on numbers in groups and form of play). In the circumstances where a group exceeds the prescribed time limit and is out of position on the course (see Appendix G for definition of “out of position”) each player in the group is subject to penalty.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I have read it before and it's been discussed to death at our committee meeting and we involved R&A and they established with our committee it's not a workable rule for club comps without on course refs etc

 

[Slab]

I have read it before and it's been discussed to death at our committee meeting and we involved R&A and they established with our committee it's not a workable rule for club comps without on course refs etc

Agree I think it would be incredibly unjust & so do the R&A judging by this paragraph:

The problem with adopting such a policy where each player in the group is penalised for a breach of the condition is that it does not consider individual responsibility for the delay and a player who is blameless may be penalised. However, this type of policy may assist in terms of a group’s self-regulation with slower players being encouraged to improve their pace of play.

And they shift the responsibility of managing a slow player onto the blameless quicker player/s. I guess the point is that if a blameless player cant speed up a slow player then he deserves a penalty anyway

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Clubs need to have a slow play admission amnesty. So let's say last two weeks in April - at start of comp season - every player can admit to their faults and ask to be chivvied along without criticism or hurt taken if others spot them during play. And PPs are free to point out faults not admitted to.

I admit to taking a bit too long over my putts when they don't matter; yacking too much engaging players when they should be playing their shot or getting to their ball; wandering about in the rough or grubbing about in the gorse looking for golf balls when I could be just getting on with walking up the fairway or whatever. But I bet there are other things I do that slow things up and that I don't realise I'm doing or that do indeed slow play up. I need to be told.

 

[bluewolf]

Start applying 2 shot penalties to slower groups and you can say a big hello to exclusion golf. I know some slower players, and there's absolutely no chance that I'd play with them in competitive games if I'm risking a 2 shot penalty or being forced to rush my game to compensate.. And before anyone states the obvious, they have been told they're slow and they can't do anything about it.. Thy're slow. It's a personality thing.. So much for the great inclusive game..

As has been said before, educate certain people to stand aside and let faster groups through. There are still plenty of people who won't do this (apply a 2 shot penalty for this if you want).
Stop 4 ball golf in competition.
Stop trying to squeeze everyone in by making tee times 6-8 minutes apart (10 minutes is ample).
Identify bottle necks and do something about them.

 

[delc]

What are these extenuating circumstances.......?

The 2 Stroke penalty was not applied if the three ball group got round the 5800 yard par 68 course in 3 hours 45 minutes or less (which was considered a reasonable time), if the group had been called through on the back nine (as otherwise a slow group would be able to pass the penalty onto the following group), medical emergencies, or delays caused by greenkeepers. It generally worked OK as players knew the potential penalty was there and tended to try to keep up with the group ahead.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

In the 1990's I managed a very busy municipal course with a club membership of over 1200.
Decent 18 hole Hawtree course par72, SSS71.

We would be recording over 600 rounds on a busy summer day on our 18 and 9 hole courses combined.
Seldom did rounds slip over 4 hours on 18 and 2 hours on the 9 holes.
Club medals were restricted to 3 balls and that was when the course was slowest. The quality of club players was high, over 150 single figure players.

We had strict rules re slow play and a team of three or four marshalls controlling operations from 10am to 7pm. Only one on per shift.
Slow play in club competitions was an ongoing problem and was instantly solved when 2 shot penalties started to be 'awarded'.
The club captain and secretary being two of the earlier players penalised.

That was then, nowadays golfers seem to be quite a selfish bunch with no sense of 'common good'.
I do not think you are going to change them as they seem to have a majority. Many golfers are also not fit enough to complete 18 holes in 3 hours.
I gave up golf aged 66 and part of the reason was slow play, life is too short to spend 5 hours on a golf course, especially if you are standing waiting for two of those hours.

PS..... 10 minute tee times are essential. Holding players back from playing too early is also important. Many will drive off as soon the first group is just out of range.

 

[Leereed]

Set the course up for the weather conditions if bad change to stableford from medal.Keep the rough manageable, at ours if off fairway by 10 yards its knee deep.Be willing to play out of turn and be ready to play your shot.And don't wait for green to clear on par 5's when you have just hit your drive 150 yards!

 

[3565]

Played in a comp with a FC who walked but to his pace whilst I stomped up the fairway often 20 yds in front with next to no conversation due to the fact we were behind in play, lost a hole if not more. He was off a 15 hc and after we were having a discussion about slow play and that I'm still to this day known as a slow player from 20yrs ago. He was astounded at this and said you are not slow, and preceded to tell me his aliment which caused him to walk at his pace and said he found it difficult to keep up with me............... I felt a complete knob and let the 'slow play' syndrome that is constantly being banged on about get the better of me.

My FC said that it doesn't bother him how long it takes because as far as he was concerned he thought it was a privilege to play the game of golf in such nice surroundings and weather and why do you want to charge around just cos you've not got the time or need to be somewhere else, if that's the case then don't play.

Got to say I don't disagree with him. Just another's point of view

 

[delc]

If you walk slowly due to an ailment or injury, wouldn't it be better to hire a golf buggy? Lots of our less mobile veterans do this.