Pace Of Play - what can be done to improve it

[drdel]

There are a number of issues to address if you really want to get a logic and pragmatic answer to the 'pace of play'

Firstly, there is no definition of 'slow' or 'fast' when applied to Golf. It's an entirely subject term that ignores too many variables beyond the control of an individual golfer, so 4 hours might be fair clip for some middle-aged, 20 handicappers or slow for two 23 years olds playing off mid-teens

1. You cannot expect a 75 years old golfer to be as fast as an 21 year old - because of shot distance, general fitness etc.etc.

2. Golf courses vary widely in distance, terrain and design. 'Pin' position on the day.

3. Weather will influence shot distance, visibility, etc. etc.

4. A golfer's reason for playing; practise round, friendly and social game, club competition etc. etc.

5. Time of day and sun direction (rare here in UK but you get the point). Summer v winter.

6. Number of players and mix of abilities, knowledge of rules and game behaviour.

Even if you conducted a pseudo-scientific survey of times and employed a multi-variate analysis for 1,000 or more rounds of golf there would be too many confounding factors to deduce a causal link that could be transferred into the real world.

The facts are that small variations by individuals on the wide range of holes can increase of decrease the time for say a par 4 hole from say 12 minutes to 20 minutes, in the worst case adding perhaps 45 minutes.

Just as if two different drivers drove 200 miles there would be no 'standard' nationwide, journey time.

 

[3565]

Well, you all should be thankful you play in the UK, as a rival publication said that UK golfers are the fastest in Europe if not the world! And we're still going on how we can improve the time to play, maybe if you practised more and improved your direction and accuracy you'd take less shots which in turn will speed play up, Maybe if some of the ridiculous rules were changed to speed up play, ie 5 min to search, be able to play the provisional you hit to save time but when your original ball is found, the only option to you is to go back to the last place you've played, or MAYBE a round takes as long as it does and what others do is out of your control.

This pressure to speed up play COULD eventually have a detriment to the course, I've not got time to replace divots, rake bunkers, repair pitch marks as I need to get/be ready for my next shot or our group will get a 2 shot penalty if we're 5 min over our allotted time.

Devils advocate n all.....

 

[stevelev]

It always seems to be one of the biggest talking points online and in mags but that R&A survey didn’t find it was a deal breaker for players they surveyed and the trouble is lots of us think we know how to ‘cure’ slow play but the reality is most of it would have a superficial impact at best

Most of the ‘cures’ can be picked apart and argued from both sides, we’ve already had one in ‘let a single through/don’t let a single through’ and that’s just in the first few posts

Just to take a couple more examples. Education, how many golfers actually don’t know how to speed up their play if they had to? Yet poor education is cited all the time as a major cause. Just how many uneducated golfers are taking part in your clubs monthly medals that already last 4 ½ + hours! It’s far more likely it’s a lack of motivation or desire to speed up

Bags/trolleys on wrong side, it’s a tiny number of times I’ve ever seen this happen. Leaving a bag at point of entry to the green is not the wrong side in terms of overall pace of a round. To be the wrong side of a green to impact pace it would need to be equidistant from both point of entry and point of exit, who does this! There is absolutely a placebo effect for the following group to see bags left at point of exit instead of point of entry but it has zero impact on the elapsed time

Pro’s on TV set bad example, nah not buying it. Maybe if we were all impressionable pre pubescent teens would some TV footage of a pro change you to emulate them regarding pace but (sadly) the courses aren’t full of kids, its mature adults we’re talking about here. Really when was the last time a TV show inspired a meaningful change in your behaviour?

We have some pretty random times allocated for how long a round should take and some folks seem to have adopted these as gospel and any variance is deemed slow when the reality is that dozens of things will slow the pace for the day from rain to pin positions, tee gaps to rough length, group sizes to game format etc and when they do kick in and inevitably slow things down its the player who marked his card beside the green that will be blamed for adding 40 minutes to your game & roundly beaten with a wedge

It’s like the driving distance claims, ‘we once went round in idyllic conditions as a 4-ball in 3:20 so anything over say 3:30 is slow’
Jeez, even changing 2 or 3 pin positions could create a new chokepoint on the course that didn’t exist the day before and add 10 minutes to a round

To answer the OP, until clubs carry out a proper assessment of the pace dictated by your course considering its chokepoints, season, rough, tee gaps, weather, groups, number of players etc etc & that pace is communicated to players, we’re all going in half blind and left to make up our own mind about what’s slow and if we actually see something that doesn’t fit with our own ‘pace model’ then it/him/her are gonna cop it and be blamed not only for the slow pace in totality but also for any poor shot we make thereafter because it/they ‘broke our rhythm’ (which ironically will slow the pace even more)

I think there are lots of good ideas and initiatives out there that individual clubs adopt and implement but it lacks a cohesive, coordinated approach from the governing bodies to drive a meaningful change across the game

So do you actually have any suggestion to speed up play or just a sat on the fence view.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Some very interesting and erudite responses. It is an issue whether you choose to accept it or not. Normally in competition (medals) we can get a three ball round in around four hours (4:15 for the club championship and you could notice the difference). However this doesn't mean we couldn't be better without compromising enjoyment, competitiveness and making it feel like an olympic walk between shots.

New players to the game need a solid introduction to the game including a basic guide to the rules and etiquette and this covers pace of play. The R&A and publications seem to have been quite proactive regarding rules over the years but they and clubs seem to be reticent to tackle the issue of etiquette, and slow play for offending new membership. It is a question of education and a good schooling in the simple things (bag in the right place, not marking cards on greens, playing provisional balls) should stay with golfers throughout their golfing life. I don't think this is happening and so good to see GM looking to tackle it head on again and hopefully this will create a ripple effect amongst the others. It doesn't and shouldn't be up to one magazine and much more needs to be done across the board. Will things change? Not in the short term. Too many members (not just seniors, juniors or the women) are stuck in their ways and I'd argue some don't even know what they do each week contributes to slow play behind. These are going to be the toughest nuts to crack and I think ultimately a bridge too far.

I can see how imposing a penalty for slow play in club comps is a clear message but a double edged sword. Players want a faster round but also play for enjoyment and if they are suddenly getting penalised (maybe missing on a cut) when they may not have necessarily been solely to blame is going to stop them entering and that has to have an effect ongoing, maybe even in membership numbers.

 

[Slime]

Some very interesting and erudite responses. It is an issue whether you choose to accept it or not. Normally in competition (medals) we can get a three ball round in around four hours (4:15 for the club championship and you could notice the difference). However this doesn't mean we couldn't be better without compromising enjoyment, competitiveness and making it feel like an olympic walk between shots.

It's an issue to some, no doubt, but it's surely not an issue to everyone ................... and who has the authority to make such a sweeping statement?

If the difference between 4 hours and 4¼ is that palpable I genuinely feel that you should concentrate more on your game than on the clock!

When I'm enjoying a game of golf I have no idea whether it's taking 4¼ or 5¼ hours ...................... and I care even less!


Slime.

 

[delc]

My previous club used to hand out 2 shot penalties to any playing group who finished more than 15 minutes behind the group ahead in competitions, unless there were good extenuating circumstances. We had one member who would stand sort of twitching over the ball for a good 30 or 40 seconds before every shot. He seemed totally oblivious to how much time he was wasting, but would then point out that we were losing ground to the group ahead and should get a move on. I could never play well if I was in his playing group because I was always hurrying my shots to make up for him! My current club has a member who has a form of the full swing yips that causes him to freeze over the ball for a similar period of time, who also causes the same problem. It therefore may not be totally fair to penalise all members of a slow playing group.

 

[JezzE]

I dont agree. Why should someone have to play/walk at a speed determined by someone else?
As per my previous post, quick players out first and nip round, they're happy.
Players who want to take their time, play together in the PM, they're happy
Medium in the middle
Everyone's happy.
Live and let live

Really not that simple, Bob - what if the players who want to take their time can only play in the mornings? What are you going to say to them: "Sorry, but you can't play golf any more as everybody else wants you to play in the afternoon"?

Eveyone, sadly, is not happy, if you're a slow player who can only play in the mornings!

 

[Slime]

My previous club used to hand out 2 shot penalties to any playing group who finished more than 15 minutes behind the group ahead in competitions, unless there were good extenuating circumstances.

If the group ahead happened to be quick players who all played reasonably well, would the group behind be penalised for being slow or penalised for not being fast?

Slime.

 

[stevelev]

Really not that simple, Bob - what it the players who want to take their time can only play in the mornings? What are you going to say to them: "Sorry, but you can't play golf any more as everybody else wants you to play in the afternoon"?

Eveyone, sadly, is not happy, if you're a slow player who can only play in the mornings!

Therefore the slow player who wants to play in the morning must speed up.

If I want to make the boxing day sales I'll get there on time, If I want to do things in the afternoon when I play golf in the morning I'll play quicker.

 

[delc]

If the group ahead happened to be quick players who all played reasonably well, would the group behind be penalised for being slow or penalised for not being fast?

Slime.

You weren't penalised if you went round the (par 68) course in 3 hours 45 minutes or less. I forgot to mention that proviso!

 

[JezzE]

I really don't see this out on the course

How young are these highly impressionable players that actually copy what they see on tv & how many are at your club

Not very young, necessarily, and there are many of them of all ages, shapes, sizes and experiences...

 

[JezzE]

Here's an idea - maybe one for Jezz and Fergus when out on the course.

How to find a ball which you have hit into the long stuff - ie " I have a line on that one" either a small bush or different coloured tree.

quite often I see people heading to find their ball and they are 20-30 yds from the line I have of it, when I continue on that line I usually walk straight to it ( usually)

They need to follow our 6 essential tips for finding your ball (especially points 1 to 3)...

http://www.golf-monthly.co.uk/featu...earch-for-a-lost-golf-ball-6-essentials-79715

 

[JezzE]

So do you actually have any suggestion to speed up play or just a sat on the fence view.

Yes we do - that's what the article will be about...

 

[JezzE]

Therefore the slow player who wants to play in the morning must speed up.

If I want to make the boxing day sales I'll get there on time, If I want to do things in the afternoon when I play golf in the morning I'll play quicker.

What if they haven't got anything to do in the afternoon but just like playing in the mornings?

 

[3565]

My previous club used to hand out 2 shot penalties to any playing group who finished more than 15 minutes behind the group ahead in competitions, unless there were good extenuating circumstances. We had one member who would stand sort of twitching over the ball for a good 30 or 40 seconds before every shot. He seemed totally oblivious to how much time he was wasting, but would then point out that we were losing ground to the group ahead and should get a move on. I could never play well if I was in his playing group because I was always hurrying my shots to make up for him! My current club has a member who has a form of the full swing yips that causes him to freeze over the ball for a similar period of time, who also causes the same problem. It therefore may not be totally fair to penalise all members of a slow playing group.

Id be well pissed if I got penalised 2 shots because of others. I'd argue the toss if I had a reason, and all I can see is that it would 'possibly' deter you from playing in future comps and if that 2 shot penalty took you out of the buffer zone or even a cut!

Think its its unreasonble for them to do that!

 

[delc]

Id be well pissed if I got penalised 2 shots because of others. I'd argue the toss if I had a reason, and all I can see is that it would 'possibly' deter you from playing in future comps and if that 2 shot penalty took you out of the buffer zone or even a cut!

Think its its unreasonble for them to do that!

If stroke penalties are not handed out for slow play, particularly at tour pro level, rounds of golf can only get slower and slower. Seems perfectly reasonable to me! As I have already said, extenuating circumstance were taken into account before penalty shots were added. I should add that most of our competitions were drawn, so you were unlikely to get the same players in your group the next time. Players who received more than one slow play penalty in a given period were called before the committee and could receive a competition ban. Thus persistent offenders could be identified, as it was unlikely that all their playing groups would be collectively slow.

 

[bobmac]

Really not that simple, Bob - what if the players who want to take their time can only play in the mornings? What are you going to say to them: "Sorry, but you can't play golf any more as everybody else wants you to play in the afternoon"?

Eveyone, sadly, is not happy, if you're a slow player who can only play in the mornings!

If you drive up close behind a slow car and start flashing your lights at it, what's the driver going to do? Normally drive even slower.
If you keep telling people to speed up on the golf course, you will often get the same result.

Give them an incentive to play quicker ie they can then play early, they will soon speed up because they want to play early, not because they were told to.

What if they haven't got anything to do in the afternoon but just like playing in the mornings?

If he/she plays in the morning with the quick guys, he/she will either not enjoy it as will feel rushed all the time or he/she will learn to play faster.
I am talking about competition days here so maybe the slower players could be drawn towards the end of the field.

The way it is at the moment is you have a slow car and a fast car on a single lane, both are unhappy

 

[Smiffy]

I am talking about competition days here so maybe the slower players could be drawn towards the end of the field.

The problem you have here Bob is that the really slow players, the ones that "usually" cause the grief, are the ones that will deny vehemently that they are slow!!
We used to have a guy that came away on our trips, and you could guarantee that the group he was in would always fall 2 or 3 holes behind the group in front.
We then started making sure he was drawn to play in the final group which he hated. We tried nicely to point out to him that he was the one causing the problems, but he wouldn't have it.
He used to ponce about something terrible and if we asked him to speed up a bit, he used to get the right hump.

 

[Imurg]

If stroke penalties are not handed out for slow play, particularly at tour pro level, rounds of golf can only get slower and slower. Seems perfectly reasonable to me! As I have already said, extenuating circumstance were taken into account before penalty shots were added. I should add that most of our competitions were drawn, so you were unlikely to get the same players in your group the next time. Players who received more than one slow play penalty in a given period were called before the committee and could receive a competition ban. Thus persistent offenders could be identified, as it was unlikely that all their playing groups would be collectively slow.

What are these extenuating circumstances.......?

 

[Slab]

My previous club used to hand out 2 shot penalties to any playing group who finished more than 15 minutes behind the group ahead in competitions, unless there were good extenuating circumstances. We had one member who would stand sort of twitching over the ball for a good 30 or 40 seconds before every shot. He seemed totally oblivious to how much time he was wasting, but would then point out that we were losing ground to the group ahead and should get a move on. I could never play well if I was in his playing group because I was always hurrying my shots to make up for him! My current club has a member who has a form of the full swing yips that causes him to freeze over the ball for a similar period of time, who also causes the same problem. It therefore may not be totally fair to penalise all members of a slow playing group.

In addition to being players in a comp they are already their own referees, referees for the field and markers for other players, to add that they must also play wet-nurse and personal motivator to a slow player or they’ll be penalised is a bit daft

You cannot (fairly & justly) penalise a whole group (unless its a team event) for the actions of 1 or 2 in that group without serious ramifications and amateur golf just doesn’t have the resource to put individuals on the clock