Overswing- throughout the ages

[virtuocity]

Did some swing vids today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uczMdqGuozA

A lot of work still to do.

Here's a lovely picture of my overswing since I started at the beginning of the year.

Slowly getting shorter! Hopefully be able to actually see the ball in my left eye at the top of the backswing soon :angry:

 

[chrisd]

Did some swing vids today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uczMdqGuozA

A lot of work still to do.

Here's a lovely picture of my overswing since I started at the beginning of the year.

Slowly getting shorter! Hopefully be able to actually see the ball in my left eye at the top of the backswing soon :angry:

It's all looking pretty good though!

 

[virtuocity]

It's all looking pretty good though!

First your memory, now your eyesight is going.... poor chap.



Certainly a better looking swing than my first ever video- CRINGE!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vh1GCBuV8oM

 

[williamalex1]

Don't worry it will get shorter as you get older.:thup:

 

[Crow]

First your memory, now your eyesight is going.... poor chap.



Certainly a better looking swing than my first ever video- CRINGE!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vh1GCBuV8oM

Big John Daly would be proud of that backswing!

Your current swing looks much better.
I'm no coach so can't comment on it with any authority, the only thing that stands out to me is that your right foot is very flared out, I'd look to get this squarer to the line, which I believe will help you get a better coil?

 

[chrisd]

First your memory, now your eyesight is going.... poor chap.



Certainly a better looking swing than my first ever video- CRINGE!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vh1GCBuV8oM

Not too sure that we're on the same wavelength there, I meant the final pic looks pretty good Dave

 

[JustOne]

Certainly a better looking swing than my first ever video- CRINGE!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vh1GCBuV8oM

From March-November that's an astonishing change!!

You should be REALLY pleased with yourself :cheers:


Will write my thoughts later (still an overswing, path too leftwards, casting)..... stuff like that

If I had to rate your swing I'd give it 4/100 in March to 60/100 in November :thup:

You should send free gorgeous hookers to the house of your swing guru

 

[virtuocity]

Thanks Chris- will be ready for Gainsborough 2014

The Black Horse reunion party!

 

[virtuocity]

You should send free gorgeous hookers to the house of your swing guru

C/O Mark Crossfield
123 Stuck'in Street
Devon

 

[JustOne]

Left position at set-up : Perfect (note position of right arm reaching to left pocket) and how far targetwards your hands are compared to your nose. Very nice.

Middle position at impact : now see where the right arm is.... and how your head has moved 4-5" targetwards (look at the blue posts behind your head) right arm is now not extended past you. It can't as you've already cast the club somewhat as you began your downswing.

Right position... where you SHOULD be at impact.... everything the same as it was at address but as your weight should be moving left I would expect to see your right arm and clubshaft just a fraction more targetwards than they were at address (blue lines)... with your head staying back.... that would give you about 5 degrees more lag than you had at address... not imperative, if you actually hit the ball like you were at address you'd be fine, you can see there's already enough lag (the angle behind the right wrist) at set up so if you don't get any more lag you already have some...... you just don't want LESS by casting or flipping the club. Looks excellent at set up.


I think your swing has really improved..... BUT it's not quite right.

You're still overswinging and you are standing square yet swinging left of your toe line???.... that should never happen. If you are standing square then you should be swinging on a path dead square to your toes and playing a super-soft draw.

If you want to hit a fade then your stance should be slightly open so you can swing parallel to your toes and not across yourself.

It looks like you are not 'making the box' and then starting your downswing by swinging the box back down properly. Your overswing isn't exactly helping... your left arm is getting to 'trapped' against your right ear... would rather see a slightly shorter swing a little wider.

Your set up also looks to 'straight legged', and your hands are very high at address.... a bit 'Moe Norman'

I would like to see you get 'the box' more down to the ball in your downswing.... if you look at this pic... your box has already gone...

the shaft should be where the yellow line is and the entire box should be swinging down so you can get your right arm across in front of you... your clubshaft (in red) is swinging in the direction of the blue arrow (casting away from you) whereas the ENTIRE box should be swinging down in the direction of the green arrow... weight shifting into the left side... left hip clearing and right shoulder coming down. In that pic your head has already moved waaay forwards of the post behind you, you're already waay out of position.

The hands HAVE to be in front of the ball.... your head HAS to be behind it... that means the right arm/shoulder HAS to be more 'across' you and forwards into impact.

This is Dufner swinging the box down..... the distance between his bicep and the clubshaft (yellow line) hasn't changed....

You are doing exceptionally well... I just want to see you do better (someone has to keep pushing you!)

So....

Set up with your 'bum against the wall' (better posture) with just a little knee bend
Hands a tad lower
Set up square ONLY to hit a soft draw
Swing a little more back (P2) down your toe line
Don't let your LEFT hip move so much to the right in your backswing, it's sliding a little and it shouldn't be!!! :thup:
Shorten the swing
Make the box in the backswing
Swing the entire box down towards P6
Hands forwards whilst head stays back,,,,,, then you'll cure that cast/chicken wing.

Still got the club in the fingers properly?


Just my thoughts :thup: Like I said above... the difference in your swing this year is already astonishing!! ...... now you got to work on the detail..... or you choose to do it (and do it correctly) or you don't.... it's not up to me.

 

[virtuocity]

Great stuff James, as always.

The videos were good at showing me swinging left- I'll need to get the alignment sticks out and work on swinging down the line of my toes- no matter whether I'm standing open or square.

Need to prioritise though as I need a systematic approach to tweaking. Just need to do one thing at a time, video it, nail it, move on to the next thing.

Let's really look at casting as I think it will be the hardest thing to improve on. Would I be right in saying that this is all about working that right shoulder down, like you said before (and I haven't worked on this at all!!)? Is this how I hold on to the 'box'?

For me being a naturally armsy swinger, I feel (without trying it or practising) that I would need to almost pull my arms down in the downswing whilst working hard to maintain the angles- a bit like the 'pump' drill if you catch my drift?

And of course- I'll need to release the angles at some point through impact. Should I not worry about this and just let it happen?


Superb spot of my left hip :thup: I'll try and quieten down this movement and work on being more centred, as well as keeping my head where it is. I think it's going to be weird feeling that my head is being left behind and the club travelling away from it.

My takeaway- you said make it more along the toe line. Would you agree that I'm swinging outside the line a bit?


A quick note about the driver- it's clear that I am swinging left. But this has got me hitting a really reliable cut recently and going from a two-sided miss to this is Nirvana for me. My issue when standing open instead of square is that I have the nasty tendency of hitting a bloomin' great 'straight' (to stance) shot which looks like a straight pull to those watching. Is it a case of working all winter on nailing a predictable fade, or continue with the 'aim left, cut in' push fade? This is just a quick aside- I may find after working on all of your things above that things naturally become more consistent.

Last question- Say I manage to hold this box shape on the downswing- what will the results be?

 

[chrisd]

Thanks Chris- will be ready for Gainsborough 2014

The Black Horse reunion party!

Now that would be fun!

 

[JustOne]

Alignment sticks are a must.... you really don't want to swing anywhere other than parallel to your toes.

When someone overswings they always get this kind of 'reverse pivot' look to their swing..... and normally it invloves the left hip sliding to the right.... so that would be the first thing to fix... keep the left hip more stable so that you CAN'T overswing. Then try and reduce your backswing slightly. When you overswing you HAVE TO cast.... (it's a chain of events caused in your backswing.... so we need to change that chain). Overswinging gets your left arm too close to your head so your first move always has to be to move it back away from your head..... and that's casting,.... so that needs fixing.

You don't want to PULL your arms down as that would break the box.... you want to start the downswing almost by TURNING the entire box down towards the ball whilst shifting your weight into the left side - the right hip moves laterally towards the target and the left hip clears.

Look here where he gets the BOTTOM of the box to...... this is perfect... from here (whilst your head stays back) all you feel is that the grip of the club is going to swing somewhere close to your left thigh....as you throw the club at the ball.

and YES you should feel like your head gets left behind whilst the club travels away from it. Less so with a sandwedge where you'll be a little bit more OVER the ball, more with a 6 iron and the most with your driver.

Yes you are swinging a little to the outside... it's because you are picturing a fade in your mind.... whilst setting up square. If you're square - it's a baby draw with your irons. If your square with your driver it'll likely be a slice or a block,... or a hook if the face closes, that's why you need to stand a little open with your driver and play a guaranteed fade.

Your driver swing itself looked the best I've seen you swing, setup was nice and despite casting and being lined up wrong you still hit it solid.... let's just try and make it better. If you are lined left and hitting a dead pull to the left then you just need the clubface a fraction more towards the target (open to the path) and the ball will fade. You DON'T want to feel like you are swinging ACROSS the ball... you want to feel like you are swinging parallel to your toes.


If you hold the box on your downswing and get your hands ahead of the ball at impact (head behind the ball) you won't cast.... so then you can swing REALLY hard and your club won't be too steep... you get MAXIMUM launch, maximum distance, and maximum clubface control (consistency).


Here's the Johnny Miller 'box' video.... (ignore the part about Fred Couples just watch how Miller shows the club casting in the first 2ft of the downswing and how people release the angles early.... that's what YOU are doing right now). http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=rp4EN5bc3yg

It's soooooo important to UNDERSTAND that we are trying to swing the right arm across our body into impact, the hands must be forwards whilst the head stays behind the ball.
In this pic his right arm MUST get to the yellow line from where it currently is... and that would mean that the blue line would then be the shaft at impact..... ie: PERFECT

 

[virtuocity]

Thanks James,

I actually understood everything you said there- do I get a gold star?

That vid is AWESOME.

Let's see what next week's vids bring....

 

[JustOne]

I actually understood everything you said there...

I bloody hope so! ... I would like to think that the 2½ hours standing in Holiday Inn carpark explaining exactly these things to you wasn't time wasted

 

[virtuocity]

Just swinging indoors (hope to get to the range later- doubtful now!) and I'm swinging to the top. Now, if I hold this angle and make my downswing as usual EXCEPT for moving my arms, then it would appear that I'm in a good position. It's weird, I haven't manipulated my arms (maybe the arm feeling in transition that I'm 'missing' is the casting move) at all.

Now, from that position, do I just flip as hard as I bloody can?!

 

[JustOne]

Just swinging indoors (hope to get to the range later- doubtful now!) and I'm swinging to the top. Now, if I hold this angle and make my downswing as usual EXCEPT for moving my arms, then it would appear that I'm in a good position. It's weird, I haven't manipulated my arms (maybe the arm feeling in transition that I'm 'missing' is the casting move) at all.

Now, from that position, do I just flip as hard as I bloody can?!

Sort of.... if you can get to that position in the pic above (Johnny Miller) then you're in a good place.... you can do what you like from there as long as your head stays back and your hands (grip) get in front of the ball.... once you've hit the ball throw the club down the fairway if you like....... grip first!! (the grip always leads) if it stops - you'll flip.

 

[JustOne]

Oh yeah..... and if you EVER need to swing a sand wedge like in that vid.... change for a pitching wedge or 9-iron instead!! :thup:

Wedges are your 'surgeons tools' and you shouldn't be swinging them flat out. Just because you CAN hit it 110yds doesn't mean that you should!!!

 

[williamalex1]

Yes J.O . A little finesse is required, also a good shave and haircut . .
PS. get the hair and beard the same colour.:rofl:

 

[virtuocity]

Oh yeah..... and if you EVER need to swing a sand wedge like in that vid.... change for a pitching wedge or 9-iron instead!! :thup:

Wedges are your 'surgeons tools' and you shouldn't be swinging them flat out. Just because you CAN hit it 110yds doesn't mean that you should!!!

Damn, now I need to learn how to hit my PW 80 yards. :angry: