Official Society Handicaps

[Hobbit]

Look, and you will find the official figures over the last few years! - You hit the nail on the head in saying that it is the "only" way to get an official handicap - WHY? - Its just a ruse to keep members clubs charging or trying to charge outlandish sums - surely a true handicap is exactly that, irrespective of whether it is from an "official" club or not - CLUB and CONGU must change, or else the numbers playing gold will continue to plummet - do please read the official reports!

Well, I have read the official reports on golf club membership, and your plummet is a bit disingenuous. At height of the slump memberships were dropping by on average 17%. The last 3 years has seen that drop to 3%. During the last 8 years, i.e. during the economic crisis, pretty much every club has refined its business model both in terms of the various subs option and green fees. Many have also restructured their staffing levels, and even when the bar is open on a winter's evening.

If you think society golf is going to be the saviour of golf clubs and golf you are at best naive.

At the various clubs I've been a member at the rollups on a comp day are a group of players that all throw in a few quid, and whoever posts the best score in the comp that day picks up the pot. Their cards are still processed through the comp for handicap purposes.

In club comps my handicap is competitive. In Society golf it isn't. And in opens, where there are some bandits, its somewhere in between. But its not just about the handicap being competitive, its also about where I finish in relation to par. How accurate is a handicap that allows me to finish 8-10 under par? It would make me competitive in society golf it isn't a true reflection of my playing ability against the course.

Going back to the initial question, why do you need a CONGU handicap to play society golf? C'mon, be honest. You want access to club opens. You want the benefits of membership without having to pay for it. Your society fee for the day, or comp entry fee, wouldn't contribute a decent percentage towards presenting the course in a manner you want. If that isn't the reason, why not just carry on as you are?

 

[LCVreg]

Numbers playing golf are at their lowest for ten years - numbers as members of golf clubs the same - if you want to just read all the lovey dovey adverts in the main line mags, then you obviously do not know what is going on - Golf over the past few years has been dying - many clubs are at last getting out of their coffins and offering more modern ways of playing and paying for their golf (flexi etc) - if all was / is rosy with clubs, why have so many closed this last year, and they are NOT all proprietors clubs either! - Suggest you read a few more trade golf organisation mags and the like

 

[Hobbit]

if you don,t believe me, well do the job itself and find out!

I think you'll find several of the dinosaurs on here are doing just that every week. That's why they feel well qualified to argue against your case.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Oh yes, one would expect abuse - I am a club member, an ex captain and many other attributes that I will not mention, and I certainly do not have a chip on my shoulder. Do you honestly think that the authorities monitor it all - Ha - I have run Club handicaps and their systems for years and can assure you that it is far from what you seem to elude! - If you care to read what I said, properly run societies (a la, same rules as clubs etc), then you might find a way to see what I am saying. He who operates the club handicap system for the club has full and utter control of the handicapping - full stop! - the counties and EGU are dependant solely on what they are told by the handicapping person from each club - if you don,t believe me, well do the job itself and find out!

Sorry, I have only been a golf-club member for 44 years so will have to bow to your superior knowledge. And obviously the offices I held and committees served on would be so much less important than your own.

However, I fail to see why the established system would benefit by recognising society handicaps and hosting so called qualifying competitions operated by unregulated societies.

If people want the structure currently offered by golf clubs then the answer is really quite simple. They should join a club.

 

[Hobbit]

Numbers playing golf are at their lowest for ten years - numbers as members of golf clubs the same - if you want to just read all the lovey dovey adverts in the main line mags, then you obviously do not know what is going on - Golf over the past few years has been dying - many clubs are at last getting out of their coffins and offering more modern ways of playing and paying for their golf (flexi etc) - if all was / is rosy with clubs, why have so many closed this last year, and they are NOT all proprietors clubs either! - Suggest you read a few more trade golf organisation mags and the like

You are making some wild assumptions that I don't. As an ex-treasurer and a head of finance I know exactly how to guide a club through difficult times... very successfully. But crack on, at least you're entertaining.

 

[rickg]

I seem to be in conversation with someone who is totally blinkered and unable to discuss alternatives -

Quite ironic this post.

 

[LCVreg]

At last, someone who has taken the time to listen! - It is only because the numbers have fallen so much that clubs have had to restructure their staff levels. I do not say that Society golf is the saviour, but it is one way. The Authoritarian system as in UK in that only CONGU clubs can issue "official" handicaps is wrong, and must be changed - it is as near to Communism as I see anything.
As per your roll up, well how can the roll up cards be processed through the system for handicap systems - that is not allowed under Congu rules! - may I suggest that where that is done, it is at the behest of who ever is doing the handicap system for the club - he has TOTAL control on anyones handicap changes and can change within reason what he wishes - no-one from any of the computer systems would ever know, and Congu exactly the same!
And you say you need CONGU handicaps for access to club opens - WHY? - be truthfull, how many club opens in your average clubs, are getting anywhere as near the number of entries against a few years ago!

 

[LCVreg]

So. protect the club - spoil it for those that wish not to, or are unable to, join a club - shades of elitetism!

 

[Simbo]

You still haven't told us why you want an official Congu handicap. If you can assure us that your society one is just as accurate then why bother??
You seem to think that what you are trying to sell is the future of golf, I think the opposite, I think the pay and play mercenary golfers will kill golf clubs. Clubs need a steady income from memberships to keep the course in good condition, it doesn't get that from societies. Having an official Congu handicap is a benefit of being a club member, allowing you to play in opens and other competitions. It might well be the carrot they dangle to get you to join a club but if they didn't have there would be more clubs closing than there already is.

 

[LCVreg]

That is of course if all clubs were equal - what about the three 100 year old clubs that closed last year around Edinburgh then, why wern't they saved....maybe, just maybe, you had a long term succesfull club and maybe with no competition for many miles! (and as a repost, I own a number of companies, all very succesfull)

 

[Hobbit]

Only the DVLA can issue driving licences. Is that communism?

Roll ups; everyone in our group enters the Saturday Medal. Whoever posts the best score picks up the pot. They will, in all probability, not win the Medal but they might win our sweep.

Can you please answer a straight question. Do you want society members to be able to enter club opens?

 

[Deleted member 18588]

And you say you need CONGU handicaps for access to club opens - WHY? - be truthfull, how many club opens in your average clubs, are getting anywhere as near the number of entries against a few years ago!

Because anything else is likely to be a "Bandit's Charter".

Not just Clubs that have experienced a fall in numbers but also many societies, particularly, I believe, in the South and South West.

 

[LCVreg]

Sadly, the smug elitism of this statement does not warrant a reply - were you not a pay and player before you joined a club? - I recognise that a number of what you might call "muni" golfers can be trying at times, so too can many home club members whence visiting from another club!

 

[LCVreg]

All golf is falling in numbers - the answer sadly is cost - the average green fee now is just too expensive at many clubs - remember, a green fee costs the club nothing, zilch! - A couple years ago whilst organising a series of large events over the year, I wanted to play a particular course - their individual gfee then was £75 - I asked what it would be as I would be bringing 40 to 50 along to play (mainly cat 1 & 2 ) and the answer was £75 pp - I went elsewhere - I politely told that club that I considered £45 about right for their club for 40 visitors, and that 40 players at £45 was alot more income than none @ £75 - Head in Sand scenario - A year later this course is now offering deals @ £45 - I am not saying Society golf is the be all and end all, but it will certainly help and should be looked at more favourably from all concerned, especially CONGU!

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Sadly, the smug elitism of this statement does not warrant a reply - were you not a pay and player before you joined a club? - I recognise that a number of what you might call "muni" golfers can be trying at times, so too can many home club members whence visiting from another club!

Hard to tell at whom your remark may be directed but if it is myself the answer is; no I was never a pay and player, but I have always been welcoming to visitors that I encountered at the clubs of which I have been a member.

That, however, does not mean I would welcome society players in Club Opens.

 

[Hobbit]

You've still not answered the question. Do you want society members to enter club opens?

 

[LCVreg]

I have an IDL, so that is not relevent! So the roll up is actually the Saturday medal, not quite the same! And as for you last question, why not if they have an official handicap as issued by a relavent body, be it a club, a society, or a tour (By the way, did you realise that there are Amateur Tours now that are authorised to appoint official handicaps !)

 

[LCVreg]

I have just answered !

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Gross over simplification to suggest that cost is the sole reason for falling participation numbers.

There are many contributory factors and cost is only one. More choices of available activities, the desire by many for "fast" pastimes etc;

 

[LCVreg]

Not even if they had the same governing rules as clubs - why should they be any different - they more likely would be more realistic !