Not another sex discrimination thread

[IanM]

I've never seen a club where women can only get 6 day membership. I've heard of a few who have none at all.... seems very out of date.

If the blokes don't want to allow women on one day of the week, seems very churlish to complain about the reverse. I guess as both genders (oops) are both discriminated again on one day that's even!

I guess you have 3 options. Put a motion to the AGM about it, suck it up or leave.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

When it's VFM that's my concern then I simply consider my own value for money and not someone else's. We all play different amounts of golf and can play at different times. There is no point in my comparing my VFM in respect of rounds of golf played a week against a member who is able to play every day - 6 or 7 days a week - twice a day if he or she wants to.

We got rid of differential M/F membership subs years ago - ladies have a Tuesday am tee reservation - but that reservation is no different from other tee reservations in place for 'gents' and fully open roll-ups in place through the week.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Ask for Gents only midweek block booking and see if that’s an issue.

 

[Ross61]

I suggest when you pen your letter that you put in a fair solution to your problem. Perhaps something along the lines of the Ladies having their comp spread over 2 days in the winter months, therefore not needing the tee block booking for so long and also perhaps some ladies would prefer to play on an alternate day anyway.

 

[Newton]

I suggest when you pen your letter that you put in a fair solution to your problem. Perhaps something along the lines of the Ladies having their comp spread over 2 days in the winter months, therefore not needing the tee block booking for so long and also perhaps some ladies would prefer to play on an alternate day anyway.

My playing partners and I would have no problem if the ladies had 2x 2 hours midweek instead of 1x 4 hours.
This has only come to a head as the 1x 4 hours effectively excludes us from the whole day due to daylight issues.
Can't see the ladies going for this though, hence why we were exploring the 'discrimination angle'.
Fair comment and a good point though. Thank you

 

[birdyhunter]

The only way you could claim discrimination is if the competiton is ladies only, they have stipulated that, and they categorically deny entry from any male competitor. Is that the case?

It may be like at our club where there are 2 internal societies, they both block book 2-3 hours each week. Yes you can try and play in those times but if you aren't a member of those societies (which are incidentally all elderly males) you'd be made to feel pretty unwelcome, especially in the bar after. Yes, it's golfing time when you can't get the value of your membership but I just live with it and choose another time to play.

 

[Canary_Yellow]

Is it a principle at play here, or does it actually reduce the number of rounds you play per week? Does it actually reduce your value for money, or is it just theoretical?

 

[USER1999]

I agree. Paying £1000+ to play once a week wouldn't sit comfortably with me. It's an expensive round of golf. It's for that exact reason I never joined a club until later in life when my employment situation changed.
Some people join a gym and pay £100pm. Some go every day, some go once a month. Some have more free time and clearly some get better value for membership than others. That will always be the case.
But I'm sorry, I see that as a completely different issue.

For sure, but if it is a member owned and run club, these are the guys (full members) that you need on your side to change anything. Guys who pay hundreds more, and play less, are not going to be that sympathetic.
If it is a proprietary club, it's just down to the owner/ general manager.

 

[hovis]

Mine is similar. I am a 5 day member. I can't play Monday because first tee until 11 is seniors day and can't play Wednesday because its women's day until 11. Unfortunately I can't play later on in the day so I am limited to 3 days golf for my 5 day membership. Why everyone can't be in the same pot I don't know.

 

[srixon 1]

Can't you book a tee time before 9am?

If they are anything like our ladies, a good number of them will only play 9 holes. I'd say at least half do that at our place.

It does puzzle me somewhat that clubs can't come up with a solution which allows the maximum number of people to play in periods of high demand, e.g. allowing people to book the back 9 only for the first 1.5 hours of daylight.

That's what we do, with the full understanding that you cannot cut in when you have played the back nine.

 

[Swango1980]

Always worth bringing up at the AGM if is causes an issue (and I won't mention that 7 days are not open to ladies, as I agree is clouds the issue your raise).

I suppose if a 5 day membership allowed a member to play Monday - Friday, then if you were a youngish male golfer paying that membership, I can see the issue if one of those days was unavailable due to it being dedicated to the ladies section. And, perhaps another day unavailable if it was dedicated to the Seniors section?

I've no issue, as you don't, with ladies having a day dedicated to competitions. I guess the biggest issue is when clubs offer these different types of x day memberships, and the implications this can cause to different types of member demographic.

I guess the club can try and tweak the membership, or golfers need to decide if the club is right for them.

 

[doublebogey7]

Sometimes I despair about golf clubs and golf club members.

It seems like your club chose a highly discriminatory practice that had a very small downside for men one midweek day. Now that demographics have shifted that’s a bit more problematic so some men like you want to move the goalposts instead of addressing the real issue.

Very surprised your seven day membership restriction is legal, to be honest.

It almost certainly isn't, but as it would be a civil offence it needs someone to go to the hastle of taking it to court.

 

[ArnoldArmChewer]

Sometimes I despair about golf clubs and golf club members.

It seems like your club chose a highly discriminatory practice that had a very small downside for men one midweek day. Now that demographics have shifted that’s a bit more problematic so some men like you want to move the goalposts instead of addressing the real issue.

Very surprised your seven day membership restriction is legal, to be honest.

We have a similar situation in reverse, Sunday mornings used to be men only & Tuesday morning was ladies morning, we removed the restriction for ladies to enable them to play on Sundays and supposedly the same for the men on Tuesdays, I see plenty of ladies on the course on a Sunday but there still is a premise within the ladies section that Tuesday mornings are still their preserve.

 

[Swango1980]

Imagine this topic was being discussed a few decades ago. As a child in the 80's / 90's, I remember my grandparents club had a bar that was divided by a wall. On one side, everyone could use. On the other side of the wall, was a Men's Only bar. Presumably so they had an area where they could talk about cars, football and slag off their wives / boast about their conquests. At another part of the club was a snooker room, but that was Men Only, presumably because they were worried about women making divots or getting make up on the table. Goodness knows what else got on, I was only a kid after all. However, I think it was progressive, because at least women were allowed to play golf, on a Wednesday. I guess many courses at the time didn't even allow that.

We've come a long way since then, but would be interested in any other experiences in the past that we would be shocked by now. I've never had an issue with Women only, Men Only, Senior Only or Junior Only competitions, there are many from both sexes / age grades are more comfortable with that. As long as everyone is catered for within the club as best as possible, and fairly as possible. We allow all members to enter our main club competitions anyway, but we still have Senior only and Lady only competitions mid week.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Not a club I'd join if 5 day members can only play 4/5 days of the week at full price because Tuesday times are booked up until daylight makes a full round behind impossible. When you add that women can't be 7 day members it seems a club that has some clear divisions

 

[clubchamp98]

If a male 5 day membership is the same price as a ladies 5 day membership, there's a problem.

I think the clubs on thin ice though regarding no 7 day memberships for women...

We have this problem.
But we made everyone 7 day members.
95% of ladies didn’t want this but the few that did used equal rights to get it through.
They don’t even play Saturday now.
But it cost the ladies almost £400 each pa.
There is no answer really .unless all comps are open to all members.
If your paying for 5 day that’s what you should get though.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I'd say that if it's a members club then increasing any block tee reservation that effectively rules out the rest of the day when the days are short would have to go to the members...what has happened to OP might be OK most of the year but not when light is limited...

Despite what I might have thought earlier - increasing the tee reservation in this way would seem unacceptable when the club also operates 5 day membership and whether 2-ball or 4-ball it is clear that the membership gives 5 day golf - and for that you need at least 3hrs - and not simply that for teeing off not long after sun-up.

Definitely not something any ladies section wishing to keep friends with all members should be doing without wider member consultation

 

[trevor]

Not a club I'd join if 5 day members can only play 4/5 days of the week at full price because Tuesday times are booked up until daylight makes a full round behind impossible. When you add that women can't be 7 day members it seems a club that has some clear divisions

Well you certainly wouldn’t be joining my club, Monday all morning seniors, Tuesday all morning ladies. Never heard of any complaints so far.

 

[hovis]

Well you certainly wouldn’t be joining my club, Monday all morning seniors, Tuesday all morning ladies. Never heard of any complaints so far.

Probably because the club is full of seniors and women ?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Well you certainly wouldn’t be joining my club, Monday all morning seniors, Tuesday all morning ladies. Never heard of any complaints so far.

You're right I wouldn't. If I paid 5 day membership I'd expect to book at a time to suit me (or be able to join a roll up group) so effectively at your place with reduced daylight the chances of me getting a full round would be 3 days out of 5.