Senior Open Competitions age restrictions

[Arthur Wedge]

I think you'll find over time that will change, a lot of clubs already no longer segregate men from women in competitions.

Of course there will always be comps for seniors and juniors, they tend to be during the week or school holidays as well - but back to the original point - nobody should be be classified as a 'senior' at a different age to somebody else, because they may or may not have a penis or breasts.

It won’t be changing at private members clubs for a very long time due to long standing board comps

Your “a lot” prob isn’t as many as you think it is in the grand scheme

There will always be men only and lady only comps are varying guises - and it will stay that way for a long time

 

[Mel Smooth]

It won’t be changing at private members clubs for a very long time due to long standing board comps

Your “a lot” prob isn’t as many as you think it is in the grand scheme

There will always be men only and lady only comps are varying guises - and it will stay that way for a long time

God forbid we desecrate the bits of wood hung on the wall, by eliminating sexism from golf eh?

There's a valid discussion to be had as to whether it's actually legal...

It is illegal for anyone providing goods, facilities or services in the UK to discriminate because you are a man or woman.

Examples of goods, facilities and services include, shops, financial services such as banking, leisure facilities such as pubs and clubs, entertainment and transport.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

God forbid we desecrate the bits of wood hung on the wall, by eliminating sexism from golf eh?

There's a valid discussion to be had as to whether it's actually legal...

It is illegal for anyone providing goods, facilities or services in the UK to discriminate because you are a man or woman.

Examples of goods, facilities and services include, shops, financial services such as banking, leisure facilities such as pubs and clubs, entertainment and transport.

A women is not being discriminated against by not being able to play in a sporting event designated to be male only

The “legal” point you have posted above is in regards females or males being denied membership at a golf club

It’s not illegal to have male or female only golf comps

https://www.somersetladiesgolf.org/uploads/1/2/7/5/127527118/eg_-equality-guidance-june-2018.pdf

Golf club ‘did not break the law’ by refusing to allow female golfer to play in men-only event

A woman who took discrimination action against an Irish golf club that refused to allow her to participate in a men-only competition has failed in her complaint.

www.thegolfbusiness.co.uk

This club is famous for... Denham's shot from the clubhouse

Nigel Denham's magical moment at Moortown is still talked about more than 40 years later - it can only be the famous shot from the clubhouse.

www.nationalclubgolfer.com

Clubs will continue to organise their competitions to what suits their members

 

[D-S]

A women is not being discriminated against by not being able to play in a sporting event designated to be male only

The “legal” point you have posted above is in regards females or males being denied membership at a golf club

It’s not illegal to have male or female only golf comps

https://www.somersetladiesgolf.org/uploads/1/2/7/5/127527118/eg_-equality-guidance-june-2018.pdf

Golf club ‘did not break the law’ by refusing to allow female golfer to play in men-only event

A woman who took discrimination action against an Irish golf club that refused to allow her to participate in a men-only competition has failed in her complaint.

www.thegolfbusiness.co.uk

This club is famous for... Denham's shot from the clubhouse

Nigel Denham's magical moment at Moortown is still talked about more than 40 years later - it can only be the famous shot from the clubhouse.

www.nationalclubgolfer.com

Clubs will continue to organise their competitions to what suits their members

I have often seen these reports trotted out as a justification for discriminatory behaviour but you need to read them in particular
“It says the club “would have to show that blocking the Saturday mornings for men’s competitions was (i) reasonably necessary for raising revenue and promoting the club, (ii) that the club’s need to achieve the revenue and promotion outweighs the unequal treatment of female members and (iii) that revenue and promotion could not be achieved in a less discriminatory way.”
This is an argument which is difficult to make - if we don’t block women from playing on 40 Saturday mornings the club could not raise revenue and ‘promote’ the club is patent nonsense, allowing women to enter a competition with the same entry fee would raise exactly the same amount of money and would not fail to ‘promote’ the club.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

I have often seen these reports trotted out as a justification for discriminatory behaviour but you need to read them in particular
“It says the club “would have to show that blocking the Saturday mornings for men’s competitions was (i) reasonably necessary for raising revenue and promoting the club, (ii) that the club’s need to achieve the revenue and promotion outweighs the unequal treatment of female members and (iii) that revenue and promotion could not be achieved in a less discriminatory way.”
This is an argument which is difficult to make - if we don’t block women from playing on 40 Saturday mornings the club could not raise revenue and ‘promote’ the club is patent nonsense, allowing women to enter a competition with the same entry fee would raise exactly the same amount of money and would not fail to ‘promote’ the club.

As an example at our place - every single Tuesday morning until 2 the course is closed to all male members due to their being a Lady’s Comp

At the weekends there is a grand total of 6 comps that’s are male only plus 12 during the weeks

That’s the same situation at most clubs in the area

Even the scenario above is more concerned about restricting access to a course on Saturdays to one sex

Sport allows competitions to be set aside for single sex

There is nothing in law to stop a competition to be male only

England Golf host - Male , Female , Senior and Junior Comps - it’s not being discriminatory to do such

And that’s the same with any sport - tennis , running etc

 

[Deleted member 29109]

By the same extent, should we not have junior comps then? It's not always bad to separate people out, there can be a good reason for it.

I would exclude juniors from that argument. Sometimes just to keep them away from some weirdos.

Many clubs now only have senior or mixed opens, which feels to me like they are excluding younger players and keeping the old boys clubs going.

 

[D-S]

No problems with competitions being single sex, just if the only way of playing/accessing the course is by entering a competition which you can’t play in then you are restricting access to the course. If this is a regular occurrence then this is discriminatory. Doesn’t matter which sex is doing the discrimination.
It’s not exactly rocket science to have concurrent competitions which allow all to have equal access at the same time. Why wouldn’t you want all members who pay the same amount to be able to have equal access?

 

[Arthur Wedge]

No problems with competitions being single sex, just if the only way of playing/accessing the course is by entering a competition which you can’t play in then you are restricting access to the course. If this is a regular occurrence then this is discriminatory. Doesn’t matter which sex is doing the discrimination.
It’s not exactly rocket science to have concurrent competitions which allow all to have equal access at the same time. Why wouldn’t you want all members who pay the same amount to be able to have equal access?

It’s a situation that happens especially with “ladies comps” - well what they used to call Ladies Day but can’t anymore

If a man wanted to challenge it then it’s prob something they could

There does need to be appropriate levels of equal access to the golf club for all

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I would exclude juniors from that argument. Sometimes just to keep them away from some weirdos.

Many clubs now only have senior or mixed opens, which feels to me like they are excluding younger players and keeping the old boys clubs going.

Seniors opens seem to be mid week, suit retired people, and are off the yellows. Now with the way things have changed with slope, Handicapping etc you can run a multi tee set up but that didn't used to be the case.

Is it really a problem to have seniors comps? If they were on a weekend it would be different, but if others are at work when they are on, what's the issue?

I was being facetious about the juniors incidentally. Multiple issues why they have their own comps, safeguarding being one of them.

 

[Mel Smooth]

I would exclude juniors from that argument. Sometimes just to keep them away from some weirdos.

Many clubs now only have senior or mixed opens, which feels to me like they are excluding younger players and keeping the old boys clubs going.

Don't think we've even got an Open this year, there's nothing on the calendar - although that could change. I'm not even sure if we have an junior members - although the club does get plenty of junior visitors using the facilities.
The youth just plays in the comps - same as any other member that wants to - make or female. The only difference with Jamie is he doesn't pay to enter, but can't win any prize money - but he can win any of the trophies, whether they be for a stableford, medal or a board comp.

 

[howlsatthemoon]

Wow, this has certainly went off on a tangent.

Original post was just a tongue in cheek comment about when you are considered a senior

 

[Mel Smooth]

Wow, this has certainly went off on a tangent.

Original post was just a tongue in cheek comment about when you are considered a senior

I think the correct answer is - when it affects you...

 

[Deleted member 29109]

Seniors opens seem to be mid week, suit retired people, and are off the yellows. Now with the way things have changed with slope, Handicapping etc you can run a multi tee set up but that didn't used to be the case.

Is it really a problem to have seniors comps? If they were on a weekend it would be different, but if others are at work when they are on, what's the issue?

I was being facetious about the juniors incidentally. Multiple issues why they have their own comps, safeguarding being one of them.

Most opens are midweek. Just many of them now exclude anyone under 55. Bit of a closed shop.

I played a guy who was 62 at the weekend and he hit it as far, if not further at times than I did. The tees used isn’t an excuse.

It’s not an Open if you are restricting entry base on age. You don’t see many for adults that exclude the over 55s.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Most opens are midweek. Just many of them now exclude anyone under 55. Bit of a closed shop.

I played a guy who was 62 at the weekend and he hit it as far, if not further at times than I did. The tees used isn’t an excuse.

It’s not an Open if you are restricting entry base on age. You don’t see many for adults that exclude the over 55s.

Opens in the NE are at weekends, senior opens are midweek. Different in your region from the sound of it

 

[Deleted member 29109]

Opens in the NE are at weekends, senior opens are midweek. Different in your region from the sound of it

Most opens I’ve played in have been during the week. There have been the occasional ones at the weekend. But the day of the week it’s on shouldn’t exclude someone from playing.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Opens in the NE are at weekends, senior opens are midweek. Different in your region from the sound of it

We don’t appear to have many opens at weekends around here - guess by hosting an open you close the course off to the members and most clubs don’t want to do that at the weekends

Most of the ones I have played are either midweek or on a bank holiday

 

[Lord Tyrion]

We don’t appear to have many opens at weekends around here - guess by hosting an open you close the course off to the members and most clubs don’t want to do that at the weekends

Most of the ones I have played are either midweek or on a bank holiday

They tend to be on the non competition day. So if a club has their main comp on a Saturday, the open is on the Sunday, or vice versa. They bring a good chunk of money into the club as visitors will tend to use the bar and catering before and after, as well as the entry fees. It is obviously an inconvenience to those members who want to play on that day but the clubs balance that out and make the judgement.

Pretty much all of the opens in the NE and N. Yorks, open age, will be on weekends, the seniors will all be midweek. It's just how they do it here. If they changed the regular opens to mid week here, entries would fall off a cliff. They work because people don't have to take a day off work. If they did, only the best clubs would get entries. It would be a big cultural change for here, it is not what we are used to.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Well don’t know what, if any, age constraint was imposed for our Seniors Open today…but off our forward tees and with 80 (no members) playing, only the winner bettered his handicap with 40pts, and only three more played to theirs. Either the course is tough and with the rough it played very tough…or we had a minimum age of 110

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Father of one of our lead physios is leading Senior Amateur at Saunton - https://www.randa.org/championships/senior-amateur-leaderboard

 

[Alan Clifford]

In many golf associations, females are seniors at 50, males at 55. No explanations provided.

It's because femailes live longer than males. Wait, what‽