No more Winter Rules.....

[Springveldt]

And you are on sand

From playing last Sunday it doesn't really need it just now imho but just from the rain last week the course had lost a noticeable amount of run from the fairways. I hit a shot into 14 that 2 or 3 weeks ago would have been in danger of going in the ditch at the back of the green but it actually finished on the fringe at the front of the green which is about 45 yards short of the ditch.

 

[rulefan]

Leaving PLs on all the time takes much of the skill out of the game.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

That's not how I read it. They have removed the ability for any club to put a semi-permanent PL for 6 or 7 months and instead clubs can use PL on any date but must remove it when its not needed

"Golf clubs can utilise Model Local Rules throughout the year, but ONLY when it absolutely necessary to do so. Any Model Local Rules MUST be removed as soon as practicably possible."

Is that not giving them free reign? It is up to the club to decide when it is necessary and if they decide it is necessary from September through to June, they can, and any day inbetween as well. I'm not advocating they should, just the new move allows them to.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

And you are on sand

People are just putting PL on because they can

 

[Slab]

People are just putting PL on because they can

That would mean the new procedure is broken already?

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Is that not giving them free reign? It is up to the club to decide when it is necessary and if they decide it is necessary from September through to June, they can, and any day inbetween as well. I'm not advocating they should, just the new move allows them to.

It is allowing them to put the LR in place without requesting permission from county

You would hope or expect clubs to only use the LR were it is really necessary

 

[Arthur Wedge]

That would mean the new procedure is broken already?

Why is it’s ? The old rule allowed clubs to have PL from 1st October until 30th April

 

[Slab]

Is that not giving them free reign? It is up to the club to decide when it is necessary and if they decide it is necessary from September through to June, they can, and any day inbetween as well. I'm not advocating they should, just the new move allows them to.

@Springveldt quoted and agreed with @clubchamp98 earlier post that their clubs have just put PL in place for the period 1st Oct to May next year

England Golf say Clubs cannot do that anymore

"Model Local Rules
Golf clubs can utilise Model Local Rules throughout the year, but ONLY when it is absolutely necessary to do so, on specified areas of the course and when the conditions would mean that acceptable scoring would not be possible without them being in place. Furthermore, the Model Local Rules MUST be removed as soon as practicably possible. When implementing any of the Model Local Rules for your golfers, it must be clearly communicated and signposted which MLRs are in place and the areas in which they are to be used. It is very important to remember that Model Local Rules should only be used when absolutely necessary, to ensure equity within the World Handicap System™.'

So if the course conditions don't warrant PL at all in Nov, the MLR can't be used, but conditions do on 8th Dec then they don't again on 10th Dec then the PL must be applied and removed as conditions dictate. It can't be left in place over winter months

 

[Slab]

Why is it’s ? The old rule allowed clubs to have PL from 1st October until 30th April

see post #88

 

[Arthur Wedge]

see post #88

The change came out late yesterday which was after most clubs would have put PL in place

The new LR still allows you to put them on now if it’s needed

So they can still have PL from 1st October through to April if they deem them necessary

And that was clarified this morning with county

 

[Slab]

The change came out late yesterday which was after most clubs would have put PL in place

The new LR still allows you to put them on now if it’s needed

So they can still have PL from 1st October through to April if they deem them necessary

The change went out to clubs last week (26th)

clubs would need to know (absolutely) the condition of the course on a daily basis from 1st Oct to apr 30th in order to do that, and there's no way they can know that in advance

 

[Springveldt]

The change came out late yesterday which was after most clubs would have put PL in place

The new LR still allows you to put them on now if it’s needed

So they can still have PL from 1st October through to April if they deem them necessary

From reading the England Golf page now I think @Slab might be right, there is no winter golf anymore and clubs should only be going to PL when applicable and removing them again as soon ground conditions allow. They should also be going "cleaning the ball" if possible before PL. I don't think you are meant to put a blanket "PL now until April" anymore.

Adverse/Extreme Weather Reference Guide replaces Winter Checklist

The Adverse/Extreme Weather Reference Guide is being introduced to help clubs not just through winter, but all year round.

www.englandgolf.org

 

[Springveldt]

The change went out to clubs last week (26th)

clubs would need to know (absolutely) the condition of the course on a daily basis from 1st Oct to apr 30th in order to do that, and there's no way they can know that in advance

I got my email from the club on the 30th September and it linked to https://www.englandgolf.org/preferred-lies which was still active at the time. That link is now dead, so I'm not sure the club knew about the changes before sending the email.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

@Springveldt quoted and agreed with @clubchamp98 earlier post that their clubs have just put PL in place for the period 1st Oct to May next year

England Golf say Clubs cannot do that anymore

"Model Local Rules
Golf clubs can utilise Model Local Rules throughout the year, but ONLY when it is absolutely necessary to do so, on specified areas of the course and when the conditions would mean that acceptable scoring would not be possible without them being in place. Furthermore, the Model Local Rules MUST be removed as soon as practicably possible. When implementing any of the Model Local Rules for your golfers, it must be clearly communicated and signposted which MLRs are in place and the areas in which they are to be used. It is very important to remember that Model Local Rules should only be used when absolutely necessary, to ensure equity within the World Handicap System™.'

So if the course conditions don't warrant PL at all in Nov, the MLR can't be used, but conditions do on 8th Dec then they don't again on 10th Dec then the PL must be applied and removed as conditions dictate. It can't be left in place over winter months

Whether they do or not is entirely with the club now. Who is going to police the clubs? If clubs want it on, it is up to them. They decide what is necessary, no one else.

This will lead to more times with PL, in my view, not less.

Interesting how we are reading this differently. What was the intention, how will clubs read it?

 

[Slab]

I got my email from the club on the 30th September and it linked to https://www.englandgolf.org/preferred-lies which was still active at the time. That link is now dead, so I'm not sure the club knew about the changes before sending the email.

I was using the pdf that Phil linked to earlier in the thread, which is dated 26th Sept

https://static.whsplatform.englandgolf.org/clubs/1000-1/uploads/pdf/extreme%20weather%20support%20document%20v1.pdf

 

[Slab]

Whether they do or not is entirely with the club now. Who is going to police the clubs? If clubs want it on, it is up to them. They decide what is necessary, no one else.

This will lead to more times with PL, in my view, not less.

Interesting how we are reading this differently. What was the intention, how will clubs read it?

I'm not disputing that the club holds the decision (now on any date in the year)
I'm disputing that they cannot set the MLR in place to run for two dates 7 months apart

They need to asses it on a daily basis and apply/must remove as conditions dictate

edit: I suppose there will also be course work that could affect conditions where a club may be able to put several days in advance as PL (maybe even a week or two) but when that work is done if the course is playable then its no PL even if its xmas day and raining

 

[Backache]

Definitely. As per my example, two drives 250 yards in middle of fairway, one in a deep divot the other not. How is that fair? If its rub of green, play off paths and other areas where relief is currently given. That would be a rub of the green trying to hack it off a cart path

It depends on your definition and idea of fairness.
Is a lottery fair?
The fact is when both players play their shots they have equal chance of hitting a good or bad bit of the fairway.
There is no planned discrimination against one.
In golf there is a degree of chance as well as.skill.
The thing with man made objects like paths is that a degree of damage to equipment or path is possible so maybe the option to drop is more reasonable and unlike the pick and place your relief point is more subject to the vagaries of the rules and you cannot delicately place it in a tuft.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

The change went out to clubs last week (26th)

clubs would need to know (absolutely) the condition of the course on a daily basis from 1st Oct to apr 30th in order to do that, and there's no way they can know that in advance

The change didn’t go to the clubs until yesterday- the PDF was dated last week but we didn’t get it then and all clubs acted on the old rules

 

[Slab]

The change didn’t go to the clubs until yesterday- the PDF was dated last week but we didn’t get it then and all clubs acted on the old rules

So the process is either broken already or clubs (now having the info) that have applied it, will remove the 7 month PL and do as instructed by EG

 

[Arthur Wedge]

So the process is either broken already or clubs (now having the info) that have applied it, will remove the 7 month PL and do as instructed by EG

Suspect the clubs will have PL in place when they require and right now that’s pretty much going to be most parkland courses after the recent weather