Nil Returns and WHS

[BubbaP]

Sorry this is done elsewhere, I haven't been able to find it...

Under the old system, if you NR'd for whatever reason you got a 0.1 increase in handicap.

What happens now? Two of the guys I played with on Saturday didnt key their scores into the App. (we are not returning cards) One said he plain forgot (and I believe him as he is a bit dozy at times) the other said, it was a bad score so not going to be challenging for anything.

What happens to their playing records? Is it nothing, but they might face a sanction if they persist?

Here's one of them
https://forums.golfmonthly.com/threads/no-returns-whs.108360/post-2329686
First line of first post has some similarities ?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I will have to disagree.

There is a 40% chance it WILL impact their handicap, which is a lot higher than never impacting their handicap. Because, by not submitting that score, their 20th oldest round remains their 20th oldest round. There is a 40% chance that round made up part of their best 8. So, had they submitted a bad score, there is a 40% chance their handicap would have increased.

I did say ‘unusually rubbish’ in recognition of what you say. Because if it is so then it will remain an outlier almost no matter what.

 

[FuzzyDuck]

I was DQ'd in a medal last week (stupidly forgot to sign the card I was marking), but got a 0.5 cut.

 

[jim8flog]

Those so ill-informed to think this clearly do not understand that one unusually rubbish round is very, very unlikely to ever impact their handicap.

I also disagree. One more rubbish round and my handicap index goes up by 0.8. The best of my 8 is also my 20th.

 

[Swango1980]

I did say ‘unusually rubbish’ in recognition of what you say. Because if it is so then it will remain an outlier almost no matter what.

How bad the round is doesn't really matter. It is still the difference of replacing your 20th oldest round or not. If that oldest round is part of your best 8, your handicap would increase if you handed your latest score in (even if you played a good round, your handicap could still actually increase if the 20th oldest was better). If you didn't bother handing it in, then your handicap would stay the same (assuming no penalty score was applied)

 

[rulefan]

Due to the number of rounds in their records what appeared to be a fault turned out to be quite correct for two ladies in a comp my wife played in yesterday. The winner's handicap went up, my wife's (in second place) went down.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

We have implemented a "3 strike" system for this season.

Failure to return a card without a good reason (Competition or General Play) results in a strike. First strike is a warning and explanation as to why it's important to return a card, even if incomplete. Second strike is final warning, third strike is penalty score and potential disciplinary action if deliberately trying to manipulate score. Strikes last the calendar year.

We can manage this with V1 but not sure how this works for GP away scores using the EG app.

 

[rulefan]

We have implemented a "3 strike" system for this season.

Failure to return a card without a good reason (Competition or General Play) results in a strike. First strike is a warning and explanation as to why it's important to return a card, even if incomplete. Second strike is final warning, third strike is penalty score and potential disciplinary action if deliberately trying to manipulate score. Strikes last the calendar year.
.

We settle on much the same at a meeting this pm. But 4 strikes = handicap suspension

 

[dronfield]

Whilst NRs clearly should be discouraged, and most of the examples dicsussed here relate to players who have got face on due to a bad round and simply left the course without submitting their score/card, there are sometimes mitigating circumstances for a NR.
Last Sat when i played a wrong ball on our 16th in a comp, and was subsequently given an incorrect ruling in our pro shop (see seperate topic within this forum), i had no option than to NR due to the assumption that i had not followed correct rules procedure to complete the hole. I entered full 18 holes scores on the comp HDID app and submitted signed card to the club.
Clearly this round is detailed as a NR against my name, but i would challenge if it had any repercussions, or I received an email from the club advising that it had been noted and will be taken further if it happens again.
Rich

 

[williamalex1]

We settle on much the same at a meeting this pm. But 4 strikes = handicap suspension

I don't intend to take part individual comps due to my back problems. But I will play in team events where I don't have to hit every shot for the full 18 holes.
So my handicap won't change unless I'm able to complete at least 9 holes in a comp, sadly at times I'm unable to.
So will I be barred from playing in comps, to try and keep my handicap realistic.
4 NRs and I'm out , really

 

[Swango1980]

Whilst NRs clearly should be discouraged, and most of the examples dicsussed here relate to players who have got face on due to a bad round and simply left the course without submitting their score/card, there are sometimes mitigating circumstances for a NR.
Last Sat when i played a wrong ball on our 16th in a comp, and was subsequently given an incorrect ruling in our pro shop (see seperate topic within this forum), i had no option than to NR due to the assumption that i had not followed correct rules procedure to complete the hole. I entered full 18 holes scores on the comp HDID app and submitted signed card to the club.
Clearly this round is detailed as a NR against my name, but i would challenge if it had any repercussions, or I received an email from the club advising that it had been noted and will be taken further if it happens again.
Rich

There wouldn't be any repercussions for this type of No Return under the WHS guidance. It is acceptable to blob the odd hole in a medal, as long as you continue trying to play remaining holes and submit score.

The repercussions only apply to the types of NR you initially referred to

 

[Old Skier]

I don't intend to take part individual comps due to my back problems. But I will play in team events where I don't have to hit every shot for the full 18 holes.
So my handicap won't change unless I'm able to complete at least 9 holes in a comp, sadly at times I'm unable to.
So will I be barred from playing in comps, to try and keep my handicap realistic.
4 NRs and I'm out , really

Depends on your competition committee rulings, there’s no mandatory proceedings set down.

 

[tobybarker]

Im afraid I dont know what committees were told to do so cant comment.

I think its a fair punishment for someone who decides their card isnt going to be submitted at all - theyre obviously protecting their handicap and also theyre witholding the evidence of their PP's score too!

I dont see an issue if they are preventing their HCP getting worse..... But I know that's the rules so fair enough

 

[Swango1980]

I dont see an issue if they are preventing their HCP getting worse..... But I know that's the rules so fair enough

Two problems.

1. If they are keeping it low to gain qualification to events with handicap limits, that is unfair. Especially if it means others do not qualify with a fair handicap.
2. If their handicap is too low, it increases chances of increasing the PCC as their scores will generally be lower than expected. This becomes more likely if several players do same thing. Therefore, this will impact on the handicaps of every player in the field.

 

[tobybarker]

Two problems.

1. If they are keeping it low to gain qualification to events with handicap limits, that is unfair. Especially if it means others do not qualify with a fair handicap.
2. If their handicap is too low, it increases chances of increasing the PCC as their scores will generally be lower than expected. This becomes more likely if several players do same thing. Therefore, this will impact on the handicaps of every player in the field.

Fair do's

 

[williamalex1]

We really need to have a specific acronym for types of NRs, simply to determine what kind of NR it actually was " no card returned " or "no score returned.
NCR or NSR seems simple enough

 

[Swango1980]

We really need to have a specific acronym for types of NRs, simply to determine what kind of NR it actually was " no card returned " or "no score returned.
NCR or NSR seems simple enough

Agreed

 

[rulie]

Two problems.

1. If they are keeping it low to gain qualification to events with handicap limits, that is unfair. Especially if it means others do not qualify with a fair handicap.
2. If their handicap is too low, it increases chances of increasing the PCC as their scores will generally be lower than expected. This becomes more likely if several players do same thing. Therefore, this will impact on the handicaps of every player in the field.

Can you explain no. 2 again?

 

[SammmeBee]

Can you explain no. 2 again?

He means higher (worse) scores but worded it badly......

 

[Swango1980]

Can you explain no. 2 again?

As SammeeBee said, when I said lower scores, I meant worse. Clearly we play top many Stablefords at our club