New WHS

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Per CONGU's guidance during COVID, clubs should have a process in place for verification of scores in the absence of physical scorecards, even if it is just verbal confirmation. Seems your club may be overlooking this step.

As it happens the club has told us that we should verbally cross-check players scores on completion of our round. That is what we’ve done. So that’s fine. It’s just that if I do not keep the card I used for scoring I cannot later check a playing companion‘s stableford points against the total shown. And if all players just enter their own score in the app there is no cross check.

I ask as i was surprised to see the total points of one of my companions when the next day I looked at the comp result. It looked 4-5 points or so more than I was expecting given how he played. We had confirmed gross scores on the day. Fortunately I had not chucked the card I had used for us and so was able to cross check - and his points was correct. But I don’t know what I’d have done had I not kept the card.

on the general point of what to write on a card. My clubs guidance is that in singles s/f we score against CH and we record our gross score. So if I was putting in a physical card I’d write in my CH and not bother about my PH.

 

[Swango1980]

And if - for a preentered comp - I don’t submit a card but do no more than enter my gross score for each hole on a terminal...? Where does writing my CH on my card (or not) fit in - unless we are talking additional rounds outside of a club comp.

I suspect that is just straight DQ. At least when Covid rules no longer apply and physical cards need to be returned (unless we ever get to electronic cards).

 

[nickjdavis]

I must admit....more and more I don't get the stipulation of recording a handicap on a card. In this computerised day and age it is totally irrelevant. Record your gross scores and let the machines sort out your nett score. Whether you write down 17 or 18 in a box marked CH or PH really does not matter....the physical act of recording of your handicap on a card doesn't affect your nett score one little bit.

These days I keep hearing the phrase "the app will do all that".....well, let the app/computer or whatever do it's good at and stop putting stupid bureaucratic obstacles in the way of players.

The only time you need to know your playing handicap and communicate it with others is during matchplay.

 

[Swango1980]

I must admit....more and more I don't get the stipulation of recording a handicap on a card. In this computerised day and age it is totally irrelevant. Record your gross scores and let the machines sort out your nett score. Whether you write down 17 or 18 in a box marked CH or PH really does not matter....the physical act of recording of your handicap on a card doesn't affect your nett score one little bit.

These days I keep hearing the phrase "the app will do all that".....well, let the app/computer or whatever do it's good at and stop putting stupid bureaucratic obstacles in the way of players.

The only time you need to know your playing handicap and communicate it with others is during matchplay.

I suspect the Rules need to catch up with technology. I agree. If the player puts the wrong handicap on a card in a stroke play event, it shouldn't make any difference. Even pre WHS if we could rely on the tech. Post WHS we have pretty much been instructed to rely on the tech, so let's get rid of these old rules.

 

[wjemather]

The rules cover everyone, and they don't all use computer systems to manage competitions.

 

[nickjdavis]

The rules cover everyone, and they don't all use computer systems to manage competitions.

Granted. But it still shouldn't matter. If in, what I will call a manually processed comp, I write my handicap as X....the person processing the comp is going to check it against a list of players/handicaps....if I've recorded my handicap wrongly what difference does it make to my score?....just apply the correct handicap. And if you are going to do that....then why bother writing the handicap on the card in the first place anyway?

 

[Swango1980]

The rules cover everyone, and they don't all use computer systems to manage competitions.

Perhaps they could have certain caveats or conditions associated with this rule. It just seems archaic to DQ someone, or reduce their score, if they put the Playing Handicap on their card only. The handicap the IT tells them, and the handicap that impacts their competition score. The competition they then are DQed from.

 

[jim8flog]

I am waiting for the occasion where a player puts in their Playing Handicap only (say a PH of 18, Course Handicap of 19). As it is in PH box, and clearly the correct PH, it seems like a big stretch for the Committee to assume they thought it was their course handicap, got it wrong and put it in the wrong box.

However, let us say that the Committee give them that get out of jail card. Imagine the player won the competition on countback, because the computer will use the correct numbers (course handicap 19, playing handicap 18). The player is over the moon, because they never thought they were putting in CH, they knew all along it was their PH as the software told them when they signed in. Somehow, the Committee need to spot this, and then somehow they have to manipulate his handicap on the computer so his CH is actually 18 and PH is thus 17. Technically, I am not sure if this is easy to do in the software? But if it is, the player no longer wins the competition.

Now, I'm not feeling sorry for the player, rules are rules I suppose. But it is all a bit of a confusing mess. Some committees will DQ the player, because in their opinion the player did NOT put Course Handicap anywhere on card. Other committees will not DQ player, but reduce handicap (if they can) so the player gets less points. And I am sure other committees will ignore the omission completely on the card and just let accept the computer working out the score based on the correct course / playing handicaps.

I know with IG when you entering cards/ adjusting scores there is a box for adjusting an individual player's handicap 'for this competition only'.

As I am now only on sub committee I do not do teh cards except when asked and I do not know what the manager or Captain is doing.

I know when I was doing cards I only fully checked the cards of the winners and the nearly winners. With nearly a 100 cards to do too time consuming to check them all.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I am a little confused (as usual) on this matter. I played in two WHS comps this weekend and as we can each and every one of us enter out scores into IG via a terminal in our clubhouse lobby, I suspect that not one of us also submitted a physical card. The direction given is that we record gross scores - and before entering them on the system, or finalising them if entered using the app as we went round, we do a cross-check with our companions - and that’s it. No requirement to submit a physical card. No need for anyone to ‘witness’ my entering my cross-checked score on the system.

 

[chellie]

I am a little confused (as usual) on this matter. I played in two WHS comps this weekend and as we can each and every one of us enter out scores into IG via a terminal in our clubhouse lobby, I suspect that not one of us also submitted a physical card. The direction given is that we record gross scores - and before entering them on the system, or finalising them if entered using the app as we went round, we do a cross-check with our companions - and that’s it. No requirement to submit a physical card. No need for anyone to ‘witness’ my entering my cross-checked score on the system.

We have to submit our card as well as entering it on the PSI. My markers score was also written on my card. I only signed my own card.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

We have to submit our card as well as entering it on the PSI. My markers score was also written on my card. I only signed my own card.

Seems that the club trusts us to enter and submit gross scores as agreed in our post-round cross check - with no need for me to have further player verification in the form of a signed physical card. But does seem open to abuse.

 

[chellie]

Seems that the club trusts us to enter and submit gross scores as agreed in our post-round cross check - with no need for me to have further player verification in the form of a signed physical card. But does seem open to abuse.

Yes, I'm pleased ours are doing it the way they are.

 

[Old Skier]

I’m not sure why the cards can’t be dropped off in a box after scores have been entered but if the club are happy that’s all that matters.
My only concern would be that when things go back to how they should people will forget to submit cards for verification.

 

[apj0524]

I am a little confused (as usual) on this matter. I played in two WHS comps this weekend and as we can each and every one of us enter out scores into IG via a terminal in our clubhouse lobby, I suspect that not one of us also submitted a physical card. The direction given is that we record gross scores - and before entering them on the system, or finalising them if entered using the app as we went round, we do a cross-check with our companions - and that’s it. No requirement to submit a physical card. No need for anyone to ‘witness’ my entering my cross-checked score on the system.

Do you have wipe the terminal everyone times its used, my club will not let us use the terminal because of COVID and the issue arose because of this an the Seniors either don't use the IG App or don't have it.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Do you have wipe the terminal everyone times its used, my club will not let us use the terminal because of COVID and the issue arose because of this an the Seniors either don't use the IG App or don't have it.

My experience is similar to SILH so whilst you are waiting for his reply I'll jump in. On Saturday I played in a 3 ball. One person marked one card for all 3 of us. When we finished one person then entered all 3 scores via the terminal, binned the card, actually I took it home and put it in the recycling bin. After entering the scores I wiped the screen ready for the next person. There is always a pack of wipes next to the screen.

We have been doing it like this since day 1 of all this, back last year. It's worked well.

 

[Old Skier]

Do you have wipe the terminal everyone times its used, my club will not let us use the terminal because of COVID and the issue arose because of this an the Seniors either don't use the IG App or don't have it.

EG latest is that terminal can be used aslong as sanitizer is avail for use.

 

[jim8flog]

Do you have wipe the terminal everyone times its used, my club will not let us use the terminal because of COVID and the issue arose because of this an the Seniors either don't use the IG App or don't have it.

We have sanitiser next to both PSI screens.

To me it is more of case of sanitising your hands with alcohol gel after using the terminal rather than the terminal itself.

There are just so many things to get touched at the club the screen is just one more thing. We have alcohol gel absolutely everywhere.

 

[Old Skier]

We have sanitiser next to both PSI screens.

To me it is more of case of sanitising your hands with alcohol gel after using the terminal rather than the terminal itself.

There are just so many things to get touched at the club the screen is just one more thing. We have alcohol gel absolutely everywhere.

This, I don't want sanitizers continually being used on the screen.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Do you have wipe the terminal everyone times its used, my club will not let us use the terminal because of COVID and the issue arose because of this an the Seniors either don't use the IG App or don't have it.

Yes - hand cleanser is provided at the terminal and we must use it before entering our score. There is a very prominent notice on the terminal telling us - so no excuses for not doing so.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I suspect that is just straight DQ. At least when Covid rules no longer apply and physical cards need to be returned (unless we ever get to electronic cards).

We’re not there yet, but I’ve asked about it.