New member handicaps annoyance..

[Foxholer]

Seems to me there are too many on here that are using the word 'cheat' without knowing all the facts!

Something does appear to be wrong, but the OP doesn't seem to contain sufficient details for a proper conclusions.

Still worth checking policy and circumstances though.

 

[rosecott]

IF that's wrong then what happens now? Do the Handicap Police raid Brampton and clap the Handicap Sec. in irons and place the club under martial law?

Possibly not, but if the County Union are made aware of the situation, they have many sanctions at their disposal including the ultimate one of disaffiliation. It's up to honest players to do something if they know that either or both player and club are not carrying out their obligations to ensure the fair administration of handicaps.

 

[Bomber69]

Okay something is not right here either the club have got it wrong or the new member/s are at it.

New member: I would like to join your club

New Club: no problem are you a member at another club do you have a current handicap, if so please get a handicap certificate from your current club.

So either the new guy is a fly coont or the new club made an erase of it, either way it stinks.

 

[ScienceBoy]

Some people would only bring across a handicap if asked to, if nothing is checked or required and the person is not told to inform then they can go ahead and hack around an unfamiliar course with a rusty game.

Once the game comes back and they have played a few rounds the good scores return...

I would always OFFER my handicap, even though I have been without a club for well over a year I still say my handicap is 12, even though I only held that for a few weeks before giving the game up and EVEN only being cut down from 15 just the month before!

With some range time and lots of time on the practice area plus about a round a month since last September I can still shoot good scores. Currently waiting to see where my 6 over gross at my driving range club championship places me, thats 42 points nett 55.

So a transferring member should play to their previous handicap and not need reassessment, if the course is easier for them they probably deserve a win or two off their old handicap, if its harder then it wont take long to adjust.


Bottom line is people like to win, if they can justify to themselves that its fair and honest (or they dont care) then to them all is well and they can bask in the glory.

 

[ForeRighty]

I believe when a new member joins a club a member of the committee should play an introductory round with them and be strong enough to validate there handicap or put forward a handicap for them to play off.

 

[bobmac]

As Rosecot said, if the guy has a recognised active h/cap of 12 at the old club, he plays off 12 at the new club and no need for 3 cards
If he doesn't declare his old handicap, puts in 3 cards and gets 22, he's cheating.

 

[duncan mackie]

As Rosecot said, if the guy has a recognised active h/cap of 12 at the old club, he plays off 12 at the new club and no need for 3 cards
If he doesn't declare his old handicap, puts in 3 cards and gets 22, he's cheating.

that's not what Rosecott said........you missed the all important 'had a CONGU handicap within the 6 months prior to joining' and, if it was inactive rather than active, it should still be restored at that level as an inactive handicap at the new club as I understand the EGU stance ie the player will need to submit 3 Q or S scores but not for the allotment of a new handicap but to change status back to active. This latter bit would be different in Scotland...

 

[patricks148]

TBH, if i joined a club after being a 12 handicap i would be unhappy if they gave me 20 something, wouldn't you?

when i joined Nairn 3 years ago they asked what my current handicap was and asked for a cert.

 

[bobmac]

you missed the all important 'had a CONGU handicap within the 6 months prior to joining'

if the guy has a recognised active h/cap of 12 at the old club

Is there a real difference ?

 

[North Mimms]

Is there a real difference ?

He could have had an active hcp of 12 but left previous club 9 months ago.
Then his hcp can't be transferred straight across.
But it should be taken into consideration along with his 3 new cards in the twenties

 

[bobmac]

He could have had an active hcp of 12 but left previous club 9 months ago.
Then his hcp can't be transferred straight across.
But it should be taken into consideration along with his 3 new cards in the twenties

Sorry Mimms, I know the rule, I just wanted to know is there's a real difference.
If the guy was off 12, he should declare it and by not doing so, he's cheating IMO

 

[BTatHome]

He could have had an active hcp of 12 but left previous club 9 months ago.
Then his hcp can't be transferred straight across.
But it should be taken into consideration along with his 3 new cards in the twenties

i dont believe that's the case, as Duncan has said, the handicap would come across as inactive, and the 3 cards would be to reinstate it NOT for a new allocation (in the twenties).

The only way this person is not a cheat is if he has mentioned the handicap to the new club and they have chosen to ignore it! I. Can't think of any golfer that would want a handicap that is 10 shots higher than he was shooting recently ... Well there is one type of golfer

 

[duncan mackie]

Is there a real difference ?

yes - huge

in the first case he is regaining his 'lost' handicap and the handicap committee have no power to allocate anything different

in the latter case the handicap committee are allotting a new handicap based on his previous playing history and the 3 cards he submits

it is not unknown for handicap committees to get confused over the difference!

there is also the issue of CDH numbers and record keeping - this will all improve hugely over the next 3 years IMO, but right now there's not enough robust data to even use the records as any kind of check on past activities. have seen some success recently but that was with someone who had managed to get 5 separate CDH entries and whose latest club actually made an effort to look behind things (and withheld prizes etc on the basis of what they found!).

I wasn't trying to be picky on my post, it really is important. It's also easy to take an inference from Scienceboy's post that it's optional to provide past playing history - as you rightly point out it's not optional, and is basic cheating to fail to advise the new club as best you can.

 

[duncan mackie]

i dont believe that's the case, as Duncan has said, the handicap would come across as inactive, and the 3 cards would be to reinstate it NOT for a new allocation (in the twenties).

err.... I hope I didn't say that in the context of N Mimms point!

let's be real clear -

1. 6 months after leaving a club a handicap is 'lost'; it is absolutley irrelevant whether the handicap was active or inactive at the point the person left the club in this situation. on joining a new club a new handicap is allotted which will (should) take into account previous playing history and submitted cards.
2. up to 6 months 'gap' and the player regains his old handicap on joining the new club. this will include it's old status (active or inactive') - basically as if he had never left.

 

[bobmac]

yes - huge

in the first case he is regaining his 'lost' handicap and the handicap committee have no power to allocate anything different

So he stays off 12

in the latter case the handicap committee are allotting a new handicap based on his previous playing history and the 3 cards he submits

The player should be asked to provide this previous playing history
In which case he stays off 12

I know what you're saying but there's no way he can get back 10 shots just by moving clubs and any system that allows that is flawed in my opinion.

a new handicap is allotted which will (should) take into account previous playing history

There's the loophole

 

[BTatHome]

err.... I hope I didn't say that in the context of N Mimms point

sorry, your correct ... Things are getting confusing.

The OP states ....

We've recently had an influx of members this season coming over from some of the local courses around Cambridge.

that reads to me that someone left a club to become member at another, rather than being a non-member.

 

[garyinderry]

if he played off 12 then the most he should have got is 18! he clearly has some talent and does not need any double bumpers. he might have 3 bad days but wont be long til he puts in a gd score of 18.

 

[North Mimms]

This thread is full of " XXX said..."
When they didn't...

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Second this, if he was a member of another club within 6 months his handicap stats active at 12.
Also do you not have a qualifying period for board comps similiar to the one oddsocks fell foul too recently?

What's a 'board comp'?

 

[drutz]

Can I ask though the player said he played off 12, ok that's fine. Did he actually have a handicap though? Maybe that is why he has joined the club. I cannot at the moment get a recognised handicap as my club being pretty new does not have enough members to join the Union. There are people who play there and play off 6-7-8 but none of them have a recognised handicap to take to a new club if they moved. Could it be that he played off 12 at his old club but has no recognised one so he enterted his cards on a new course, played badly maybe due to unfamilarity with the course, and so got the present handicap. Whilst he might be a better player than his current handicap represents surely he is not a cheat as such.