My Swing Speed Journey

[Backsticks]

A question for any students of the physics of the swing :
- the wrists are a free hinge on the downswing (only applying force themselves at the transition to avoid the club jacknifing).
But are the shoulders similarly ? i.e. is their release a flail from force applied by the turn and ground forces ? So truly a double trebuchet action, and any conscious muscle effort to move them serves only to slow down their movement from the greater force applied by the core and glute muscles ?
Any links to authoritative discussions on the topic.
I feel I am pushing an extra 2-3mph with such a thought, but dont want to over do it if it could be a false path. Able to get 104- 105 with Stack 195g, which is a breakthrough of sorts, from just over the 100mph I have felt stuck on these last 6 weeks.

 

[harpo_72]

A question for any students of the physics of the swing :
- the wrists are a free hinge on the downswing (only applying force themselves at the transition to avoid the club jacknifing).
But are the shoulders similarly ? i.e. is their release a flail from force applied by the turn and ground forces ? So truly a double trebuchet action, and any conscious muscle effort to move them serves only to slow down their movement from the greater force applied by the core and glute muscles ?
Any links to authoritative discussions on the topic.
I feel I am pushing an extra 2-3mph with such a thought, but dont want to over do it if it could be a false path. Able to get 104- 105 with Stack 195g, which is a breakthrough of sorts, from just over the 100mph I have felt stuck on these last 6 weeks.

That’s deep, if you are saying are my shoulders the top of the twisting of my torso muscles then I might understand.. and understand that if you just unwind your shoulders then you lose the torque built up… or have I misunderstood?
I am not sure if I consciously think about this, I do consider the amount of or angle of rotation vs my hips I have with my shoulders. I also think if set up is correct the propensity to come over the top or in to out is reduced..

 

[Springveldt]

Latest session today at lunchtime. G 122, B 118, R 117 then final green at 126. Incremental increases here and there with each session.

 

[Backsticks]

That’s deep, if you are saying are my shoulders the top of the twisting of my torso muscles then I might understand.. and understand that if you just unwind your shoulders then you lose the torque built up… or have I misunderstood?
I am not sure if I consciously think about this, I do consider the amount of or angle of rotation vs my hips I have with my shoulders. I also think if set up is correct the propensity to come over the top or in to out is reduced..

More a case of thinking of both shoulder joints as muscle-free ball and sockets I think. And so the arms are slung by the power of the large muscles of the core and legs. The wrists the second pivot.
The wrists are both closer to each other, locked to each other in the grip, and make a similar motion, so much more easily thought of as the single free pivot. The arms are more complicated - being distant, making different motions, and complicated by the folding of the trail arm which is necessary to complete the motion as we know it.
Found this which seems to indicate similar. As with the wrists, it would appear that the more passive the shoulders are, after controlling the transition and ensuring the club starts down on the correct line, the better. Easier said that done, but critical for real speed.

Swing Physics - the swing

How the masses of the golfer, the clubhead, and the ball affect energy transfer -- both collisions and swings

www.tutelman.com

 

[Singlefiguregokfer]

More a case of thinking of both shoulder joints as muscle-free ball and sockets I think. And so the arms are slung by the power of the large muscles of the core and legs. The wrists the second pivot.
The wrists are both closer to each other, locked to each other in the grip, and make a similar motion, so much more easily thought of as the single free pivot. The arms are more complicated - being distant, making different motions, and complicated by the folding of the trail arm which is necessary to complete the motion as we know it.
Found this which seems to indicate similar. As with the wrists, it would appear that the more passive the shoulders are, after controlling the transition and ensuring the club starts down on the correct line, the better. Easier said that done, but critical for real speed.

Swing Physics - the swing

How the masses of the golfer, the clubhead, and the ball affect energy transfer -- both collisions and swings

www.tutelman.com

Are you a pro?

 

[Backsticks]

Are you a pro?

No, just middle of the bell curve level hacker. The topic would be above the pay grade of the typical pro.

 

[Crow]

A question for any students of the physics of the swing :
- the wrists are a free hinge on the downswing (only applying force themselves at the transition to avoid the club jacknifing).
But are the shoulders similarly ? i.e. is their release a flail from force applied by the turn and ground forces ? So truly a double trebuchet action, and any conscious muscle effort to move them serves only to slow down their movement from the greater force applied by the core and glute muscles ?
Any links to authoritative discussions on the topic.
I feel I am pushing an extra 2-3mph with such a thought, but dont want to over do it if it could be a false path. Able to get 104- 105 with Stack 195g, which is a breakthrough of sorts, from just over the 100mph I have felt stuck on these last 6 weeks.

I suggest you read the groundbreaking "Search for the Perfect Swing" by Cochran and Stobbs.

It's old but goes into detail on why a single hinge is best. In fact the whole book makes great reading and much of what it says still applies today.

 

[Backsticks]

I suggest you read the groundbreaking "Search for the Perfect Swing" by Cochran and Stobbs.

It's old but goes into detail on why a single hinge is best. In fact the whole book makes great reading and much of what it says still applies today.

Thanks. I have it, but not read for decades. I see some of the modern trendsetters refer to it regularly.

Is it saying single free hinge at the wrists only, but that the shoulders should actively apply force through impact ? The transfer of momentum in the Tutelman animation suggestes the clubhead needs to be able to slow the velocity of the arms to maximise clubhead speed.

 

[bobmac]

The topic would be above the pay grade of the typical pro.

I wonder why you hate PGA pros so much

 

[Crow]

Thanks. I have it, but not read for decades. I see some of the modern trendsetters refer to it regularly.

Is it saying single free hinge at the wrists only, but that the shoulders should actively apply force through impact ? The transfer of momentum in the Tutelman animation suggestes the clubhead needs to be able to slow the velocity of the arms to maximise clubhead speed.

The shoulders are essentially the centre of rotation and as such can't pivot.
The left arm is the upper lever and the shaft the lower lever, the wrists are the pivot point.
The whole swing relies on rotation of the body/arm unit and correct timing of the release by the wrists.

The book also looks at the effectiveness of two hinge points (I suppose bending the left elbow would achieve that) but the result is unsatisfactory.

 

[Springveldt]

Going to keep posting my numbers in here to keep me motivated and maybe motivate others to. Another session at lunchtime, couldn't do it yesterday due to rain and by the time I finish work, have dinner, help tidy the kitchen etc it's already dark so couldn't do it after work.

Anyway today's numbers were G 123, B 121, R 117 then final green 126. Also tested driver afterwards and got that to 112 which is only 1mph down on my last session last year so I'm happy with where I'm at. I'm going to start doing level 2 superspeed protocol from the next session so I'll be adding in the heel stomp swing which will increase the load by an extra 9 swings.

Aim is to get the speeds to green 131, blue 127, red 123, so around 6mph from where I am now. Dream would be G 137, B 132, R 129 but I know I'd need to work hard for that, like gym work, lose weight, gain flexibility and stay consistent with it all which I probably don't have the willpower for if I'm being honest as that will probably be 6 months of hard work, maybe longer.

 

[pokerjoke]

I went to the club this morning it was 6 degrees
The assistant pro was setting up for a lesson with shotscope.
I asked if he could measure my SP and after 20 warm up swings I hit 3 shots.
99mph
103 mph
104 mph
Should easily be able to get to 106/107 once warm.
Not bad for 58

 

[Singlefiguregokfer]

I wonder why you hate PGA pros so much

No one’s managed to turn him into a decent golfer yet, so he supposes all pro’s are useless. Or so I assume!

 

[Singlefiguregokfer]

No, just middle of the bell curve level hacker. The topic would be above the pay grade of the typical pro.

So you know nothing of which you profess.

 

[DeanoMK]

Going to keep posting my numbers in here to keep me motivated and maybe motivate others to. Another session at lunchtime, couldn't do it yesterday due to rain and by the time I finish work, have dinner, help tidy the kitchen etc it's already dark so couldn't do it after work.

Anyway today's numbers were G 123, B 121, R 117 then final green 126. Also tested driver afterwards and got that to 112 which is only 1mph down on my last session last year so I'm happy with where I'm at. I'm going to start doing level 2 superspeed protocol from the next session so I'll be adding in the heel stomp swing which will increase the load by an extra 9 swings.

Aim is to get the speeds to green 131, blue 127, red 123, so around 6mph from where I am now. Dream would be G 137, B 132, R 129 but I know I'd need to work hard for that, like gym work, lose weight, gain flexibility and stay consistent with it all which I probably don't have the willpower for if I'm being honest as that will probably be 6 months of hard work, maybe longer.

Absolutely keep posting updates!

I'm week 3 of my bruised ribs, hopefully they start to get better soon. Chomping at the bit to get back to my training.

 

[Dando]

Absolutely keep posting updates!

I'm week 3 of my bruised ribs, hopefully they start to get better soon. Chomping at the bit to get back to my training.

getting the excuses in early for Princes?

 

[DeanoMK]

getting the excuses in early for Princes?

Haha, absolutely

 

[Springveldt]

Lunchtime session, G 123, B 120, R 119 then final green at only 124.

Not sure if it was fatigue as I added in the heel stomp swings so 18 extra swings or it was the fact I was doing them on my driveway as the back garden is a swamp again. Never done them on the drive before (it's a tarmac drive rather than block paved) and it was wet and it actually started to rain yet again at the end of the session. Definitely seems like this is my plateau now and I'll be stuck at these speeds for the next 5 weeks. I'm also noticing that the fastest swings comes on the reps were it feels like I've had a half second pause at the top of my backswing compared to those where I just rush straight into the downswing. I probably need to slow down my transition, something I'm going to work on.

 

[cunnini]

Had a lesson today, and coach commented my 6 iron swing speed gone from mid to high 70s to mid 80s. I've finished Stack foundation and 3 sessions on next series the App recommended which is Full Speed Spectrum.

Feeling good about the start of the season and qualifying comps/rounds come April.

 

[Springveldt]

Couldn't do them yesterday, life got in the way. Crammed them in at lunchtime on a wet driveway with spots of rain falling. Had a pretty terrible session, G 121, B 115, R 111 then final green 124. The blue and red sticks were just so below where I've been at, not sure if it was just one of those days or the fact it was on the driveway surrounded by my car and the neighbours car that was making me more conscious of the swings (wasn't swing at either car).

Also really need to try and get 3 sessions in per week, currently only managing 2 which isn't helping things.