My idea to punish criminals

[Ethan]

Amongst all this seething anger from the right (mean two ways) thinking GM forum members, perhaps it is worth remembering that it is mostly small criminals that end up in prison. Many of these are also mentally ill, and there is a clear racial bias in who ends up in prison.

On the other hand, how many of the people who defrauded the world's economy lately ended up in prison. None, I think you will find.

So you want to hang and flog minor shoplifters, but are not too worried about people who took billions and wrecked your pensions?

On the subject of Ray Mallon, he modelled himself after Bill Bratton, police chief in NY. It has now been shown that the fall in crime claimed by his zero tolerance policy started before his policy was conceived and actually had nothing to do with it. It was to do with changing demographics in the area. Maybe that is why the same policy has had little effect (other than placating the middle classes) elsewhere.

Oh, and 3 strikes was a political policy intended to appeal to baseball loving rednecks whose understanding of law and order extended only to locking up black people for repeated minor offences.

 

[madandra]

My OP was regarding those who commit crimes that shock and anger the nation and not petty criminals. It was simply my opinion that people like John Venables and the other one and Shannon Mathews mother should not be wrapped in cotton wool when they are let out.

 

[Ethan]

My OP was regarding those who commit crimes that shock and anger the nation and not petty criminals. It was simply my opinion that people like John Venables and the other one and Shannon Mathews mother should not be wrapped in cotton wool when they are let out.

Sure, they are odious criminals and few would be sorry if they never saw the light of day again, but I have a bit of a problem with what shocks (and more importantly, what doesn't shock) the nation. It is not too difficult with barndoor cases like those, and the recent nursery worker/child abusers, on which we can all agree, but things start to get hazier as you go down the list of criminality. That approach lends itself to trial by tabloid.

 

[CliveW]

This put a smile on my face and I thought you would appreciate it here....



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To the Guy Who Tried to Mug Me in Downtown Savannah night before

last. Date: 2009-05-27, 1:43 a.m. E.S.T.

I was the guy wearing the black Burberry jacket that you
demanded that I hand over, shortly after you pulled the knife on me and my
girlfriend, threatening our lives. You also asked for my girlfriend's purse and
earrings. I can only hope that you somehow come across this rather important
message.

First, I'd like to apologize for your embarrassment; I didn't
expect you to actually crap in your pants when I drew my pistol after you took
my jacket. The evening was not that cold, and I was wearing the jacket for a
reason. My girlfriend had just bought me that Kimber Model 1911 .45 A CP pistol
for my birthday, and we had picked up a shoulder holster for it that very
evening. Obviously you agree that it is a very intimidating weapon when pointed
at your head ... isn't it?!


I know it probably wasn't fun walking back to wherever you'd
come from with that brown sludge in your pants. I'm sure it was even worse
walking bare-footed since I made you leave your shoes, cell phone, and wallet
with me. [That prevented you from calling or running to your buddies to come
help mug us again].
After I called your mother, or "Momma" as you had her listed in
your cell, I explained the entire episode of what you'd done. Then I went and
filled up my gas tank as well as those of four other people in the gas station,
on your credit card. The guy with the big motor home took 150 gallons and was
extremely grateful!

I gave your shoes to a homeless guy outside Vinnie Van Go Go's,
along with all the cash in your wallet. [That made his day!]
I then threw your wallet into the big pink "pimp mobile" that
was parked at the curb ... after I broke the windshield and side window and
keyed the entire driver's side of the car.

Later, I called a bunch of phone sex numbers from your cell
phone.. Ma Bell just now shut down the line, although I only used the phone for
a little over a day now, so what 's going on with that? Earlier, I managed to
get in two threatening phone calls to the DA's office and one to the FBI, while
mentioning President Obama as my possible target.
The FBI guy seemed really intense and we had a nice long chat (I
guess while he traced your number etc.).
In a way, perhaps I should apologize for not killing you ... but
I feel this type of retribution is a far more appropriate punishment for your
threatened crime. I wish you well as you try to sort through some of these
rather immediate pressing issues, and can only hope that you have the
opportunity to reflect upon, and perhaps reconsider, the career path you've
chosen to pursue in life. Remember, next time you might not be so lucky.

Have a good day!

Thoughtfully yours,

Alex

P.S. Remember this motto ... An armed society makes for a more
civil society!

I probably don't have to ask you to forward this one

 

[Ethan]

Clive

I am sure that was a fantasy post. If true, the smart arse who wrote is is also guilty of several felonies under US law, so in order to flaunt his smugness in having his gun with him, he committed more crimes than the mugger. Ironic, no?

 

[DMC]

Clive

I am sure that was a fantasy post. If true, the smart arse who wrote is is also guilty of several felonies under US law, so in order to flaunt his smugness in having his gun with him, he committed more crimes than the mugger. Ironic, no?

Its perfectly legal to carry a gun in some states,its only illegal to conceal it.

 

[bobmac]

And the latest????
Two teenage girls punching a 2 year old in the head while trying to rob her 23 year old mother.
Where? In Los Angeles?, Puerto Rico?
No, in Wembly

 

[Ethan]

Clive

I am sure that was a fantasy post. If true, the smart arse who wrote is is also guilty of several felonies under US law, so in order to flaunt his smugness in having his gun with him, he committed more crimes than the mugger. Ironic, no?

Its perfectly legal to carry a gun in some states,its only illegal to conceal it.

I didn't mean that carrying a gun was the felony, but theft of the mugger's goods, criminal damage (or whatever the US term is) and credit card fraud are amongst the offences he committed.

 

[madandra]

It sounds like an urban myth and also sounds like sweet revenge.

 

[AuburnWarrior]

Amongst all this seething anger from the right (mean two ways) thinking GM forum members, perhaps it is worth remembering that it is mostly small criminals that end up in prison. Many of these are also mentally ill, and there is a clear racial bias in who ends up in prison.

On the other hand, how many of the people who defrauded the world's economy lately ended up in prison. None, I think you will find.

So you want to hang and flog minor shoplifters, but are not too worried about people who took billions and wrecked your pensions?

On the subject of Ray Mallon, he modelled himself after Bill Bratton, police chief in NY. It has now been shown that the fall in crime claimed by his zero tolerance policy started before his policy was conceived and actually had nothing to do with it. It was to do with changing demographics in the area. Maybe that is why the same policy has had little effect (other than placating the middle classes) elsewhere.

Oh, and 3 strikes was a political policy intended to appeal to baseball loving rednecks whose understanding of law and order extended only to locking up black people for repeated minor offences.

No defrauding I'm afraid - CDOs (collaterilised Debt Obligations) were the culprit and they were sanctioned by the FSA and rated AAA+ by the various credit agencies. Unfortunately, most of the debt (mortgages) were for 'trailor trash' who had not one hope of paying them back. America crashes - domino effect - so do we.

Labour had ample time to stop this from happening but chose to ride on the wave of everyone getting mortgages (sometimes up to eight times a salary), loads of credit cards and, as a result, fancy motors. That's why they're doing everything they can to put it right.

Sorry to go off topic a fraction but I work in the banking industry and I'm fed up with hearing the rubbish that the media spout which then becomes vitriolic abuse from the man in the street.

 

[Ethan]

So you want to hang and flog minor shoplifters, but are not too worried about people who took billions and wrecked your pensions?

No defrauding I'm afraid - CDOs (collaterilised Debt Obligations) were the culprit and they were sanctioned by the FSA and rated AAA+ by the various credit agencies. Unfortunately, most of the debt (mortgages) were for 'trailor trash' who had not one hope of paying them back. America crashes - domino effect - so do we.

Labour had ample time to stop this from happening but chose to ride on the wave of everyone getting mortgages (sometimes up to eight times a salary), loads of credit cards and, as a result, fancy motors. That's why they're doing everything they can to put it right.

Sorry to go off topic a fraction but I work in the banking industry and I'm fed up with hearing the rubbish that the media spout which then becomes vitriolic abuse from the man in the street.

Thanks. I know what CDOs are. I also know that your mates bought these without knowing what they were buying and were criminally negligent in doing so. I also know that in the free market which all the bankers (rhyming slang use also intended) moan about, half these banks would be bust, and so they should be. And the ratings agencies, and the NY Fed should also get a serious kick up the arse.

For a banker to blame all of this on "trailor trash" (sic) is shameful.

 

[AuburnWarrior]

So you want to hang and flog minor shoplifters, but are not too worried about people who took billions and wrecked your pensions?

No defrauding I'm afraid - CDOs (collaterilised Debt Obligations) were the culprit and they were sanctioned by the FSA and rated AAA+ by the various credit agencies. Unfortunately, most of the debt (mortgages) were for 'trailor trash' who had not one hope of paying them back. America crashes - domino effect - so do we.

Labour had ample time to stop this from happening but chose to ride on the wave of everyone getting mortgages (sometimes up to eight times a salary), loads of credit cards and, as a result, fancy motors. That's why they're doing everything they can to put it right.

Sorry to go off topic a fraction but I work in the banking industry and I'm fed up with hearing the rubbish that the media spout which then becomes vitriolic abuse from the man in the street.

Thanks. I know what CDOs are. I also know that your mates bought these without knowing what they were buying and were criminally negligent in doing so. I also know that in the free market which all the bankers (rhyming slang use also intended) moan about, half these banks would be bust, and so they should be. And the ratings agencies, and the NY Fed should also get a serious kick up the arse.

For a banker to blame all of this on "trailor trash" (sic) is shameful.

How can something that's legally available make it a crime to purchase? Our industry is very heavily regulated - there's no way a trader could be 'criminally negligent' and get away with it. Also, EVERY investment bank was buying and selling them.

With regards half the banks going bust - most would have but certain got bought out by other banks. Only one went under and that was a BIG mistake. All the major players and economists recognise and acknowledge that.

The blame can be apportioned to many things but the issue started in America - lenders lending to people who had no hope of making the payments - define that as you will.

 

[Ethan]

You can be criminally negligent when you take unreasonable risks with money. The issue with selling mortgages to the "trailer trash" you blame for this is that many were mis-sold by rapacious and crooked mortgage sellers who mis-represented the terms and encouraged people who did not know better to take huge risks so that they could scoop up commission. Then the big banks disguised these risky loans in CDOs in a way that their true provenance could not be detected. Goldman Sachs is too well connected to the US Govt for this matter to be handled properly.

Some of these banks may have been bought, but only after crashing and being dismantled.

 

[AuburnWarrior]

You can be criminally negligent when you take unreasonable risks with money. The issue with selling mortgages to the "trailer trash" you blame for this is that many were mis-sold by rapacious and crooked mortgage sellers who mis-represented the terms and encouraged people who did not know better to take huge risks so that they could scoop up commission. Then the big banks disguised these risky loans in CDOs in a way that their true provenance could not be detected. Goldman Sachs is too well connected to the US Govt for this matter to be handled properly.

Some of these banks may have been bought, but only after crashing and being dismantled.

The whole mortgage industry has been appalling for the past ten years. I used to work for a building society in the mid - late 90s and our lending multiples were very strict - 3.25 times a single persons income, 2.5 times a joint application plus, we did an affordability test to make sure the monthly mortgage payment wasn't outside their means. A couple of years ago I was hearing stories of people being offered eight times their salary! That's rediculous and, more importantly, unsustainable.

You're right - the CDOs were packaged in a way that disguised their true worth but that comes back to the credit rating given to them. Standard & Poors, etc should have given them a very low credit rating which would have meant that the collateral off the back would have been much less which meant that when they defaulted the companies right downs would have been far less. Lessons have been learnt from this, contrary to media statements - will something similar happen again? Probably but with a different product. Our industry is reactionary rather than proactionary (I think I've just invented a word there..... ).
GS are massively linked to both the US and GB government. Most of Gordon Brown's financial decisions over the past 10 years have been mulled over by GS before being made public.
It's also worth noting that Lehman Brothers (before it's demise) was one of the top ten tax payers in the country. GS pay their staff more so they would also be in the top ten tax payers.

 

[Ethan]

You can be criminally negligent when you take unreasonable risks with money. The issue with selling mortgages to the "trailer trash" you blame for this is that many were mis-sold by rapacious and crooked mortgage sellers who mis-represented the terms and encouraged people who did not know better to take huge risks so that they could scoop up commission. Then the big banks disguised these risky loans in CDOs in a way that their true provenance could not be detected. Goldman Sachs is too well connected to the US Govt for this matter to be handled properly.

Some of these banks may have been bought, but only after crashing and being dismantled.

The whole mortgage industry has been appalling for the past ten years. I used to work for a building society in the mid - late 90s and our lending multiples were very strict - 3.25 times a single persons income, 2.5 times a joint application plus, we did an affordability test to make sure the monthly mortgage payment wasn't outside their means. A couple of years ago I was hearing stories of people being offered eight times their salary! That's rediculous and, more importantly, unsustainable.

You're right - the CDOs were packaged in a way that disguised their true worth but that comes back to the credit rating given to them. Standard & Poors, etc should have given them a very low credit rating which would have meant that the collateral off the back would have been much less which meant that when they defaulted the companies right downs would have been far less. Lessons have been learnt from this, contrary to media statements - will something similar happen again? Probably but with a different product. Our industry is reactionary rather than proactionary (I think I've just invented a word there..... ).
GS are massively linked to both the US and GB government. Most of Gordon Brown's financial decisions over the past 10 years have been mulled over by GS before being made public.
It's also worth noting that Lehman Brothers (before it's demise) was one of the top ten tax payers in the country. GS pay their staff more so they would also be in the top ten tax payers.

To a certain extent I agree, but the credit rating agencies are just another part of the problem. The banks deliberately disguised the poor loans in CDOs, and the fact that S&P did not spot this, or did but ignored it assuming all was going to remain well, does not absolve the banks. That is like blaming the police for crimes that go unsolved.

In a variation of the old maxim, if one person owes money to a bank, it is their problem but if millions do, it is the bank's problem. The banks were too greedy for custom and took risks which fuelled this problem. There have always been, and always will be, bad debts, and we all pay for those in our mortgages.

The remaining problem, which may or may not be dealt with is Too Big To Fail. Elsewhere in capitalism, if a company screws up, it goes bust or gets bought, not bailed out by HMG. The banks should not be protected from this, and any bank that is TBTF should be broken up. Darling is currently paying some lip service to this idea.