Rules for immigrants

[Tashyboy]

Agree it's a nonsense to import criminals & the German asylum policy does run the risk of changing the fabric of that society, but it hasn't been done for altruistic reasons. If you accept asylum is necessary, how do you stop it being abused? & where do you send those that are seemingly stateless?

Eeeee rod it's nice to have a sensible conversation, thing is rod the topic is about immigrants and not asylum seekers. But if they both have " history" the bottom line for a harmonious multi cultural society, is it beneficial? No it's not.
An open door policy was introduced by Germany now the seeds have been sown.
For me Assylum is necessary but there has to be stringent rules applied. For me the first question is, where are you from. If you do not get asylum, you go back.

 

[User20205]

Eeeee rod it's nice to have a sensible conversation, thing is rod the topic is about immigrants and not asylum seekers. But if they both have " history" the bottom line for a harmonious multi cultural society, is it beneficial? No it's not.
An open door policy was introduced by Germany now the seeds have been sown.
For me Assylum is necessary but there has to be stringent rules applied. For me the first question is, where are you from. If you do not get asylum, you go back.

Don't worry it won't last long the topic is about immigration but the example given...Berlin, was about asylum. Modern immigration seems to be mainly from Euro states, can't do anything about those no's until brexit kicks in. If those 'immigrants' offend then they lose the right to freedom of movement. The other issue is asylum, both valid & invalid from war torn states in the Middle East. This is where the bogeyman is from. (This maybe an over simplistic version of the situation)

The Tunisian in question applied for asylum in Germany, was refused and 'lost' his papers rendering him stateless. If he won't tell you where he's from where do you send him back to?

I don't know what the answer is, but it seems to me that 'controlled' asylum/immigration is better than kids living in squalor in the 'jungle' or floating face down in the Med.

Intergration, once here is another issue. There seems to be one group in society that can't/won't integrate, blame for this must lie on both sides, but it's also my opinion, that we only hear the bad news re this, never the positive.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Don't worry it won't last long the topic is about immigration but the example given...Berlin, was about asylum. Modern immigration seems to be mainly from Euro states, can't do anything about those no's until brexit kicks in. If those 'immigrants' offend then they lose the right to freedom of movement. The other issue is asylum, both valid & invalid from war torn states in the Middle East. This is where the bogeyman is from. (This maybe an over simplistic version of the situation)

The Tunisian in question applied for asylum in Germany, was refused and 'lost' his papers rendering him stateless. If he won't tell you where he's from where do you send him back to?

I don't know what the answer is, but it seems to me that 'controlled' asylum/immigration is better than kids living in squalor in the 'jungle' or floating face down in the Med.

Intergration, once here is another issue. There seems to be one group in society that can't/won't integrate, blame for this must lie on both sides, but it's also my opinion, that we only hear the bad news re this, never the positive.

The Bad news sells the papers and stirs the tribes

There is lots and lots of good times for people from all over the world integrating within our society - and I believe our nation is a better place for it.

For me in regards immigration into the country must be within reason and someone coming into the UK is looking to add to how great it is instead of just looking for a free ride and to milk the system. No one should be allowed to enter with any serious criminal background

Someone turns from an immigrant the minute they gain British Citizenship

 

[clubchamp98]

Fair enough. everyone will have their own definition. I'd go for classed as non British until a successful application for citizenship has been made. Birth in this country automatically grants citizenship irrespective of background. There will be particular cases that are more complicated than this & asylum is a different matter.
To answer the original point, yes if you're non British and commit a crime that has a custodial sentence as part of the punishment, then repatriation should be considered.

However, in the Berlin case (pls correct me if I'm wrong) the fella was a failed asylum seeker that couldn't be deported as there was no official record of where he was from. The Paris attacks came from a domestic source as did the 7/7 bombings. None would have been prevented by deportation.

The only case that I can think of that would have been was the murder of that girl in London a few years ago by a Latvian convicted criminal. That's where the checks and processes fell down & again he wasn't an immigrant, but a European citizen, with the benefits that go with that.

ITV found his family home in Tunisia I think the same day as the attack and interviewed his two brothers.
if they can find where he was from why can't the relevant authorities when he was released from jail.

 

[Sweep]

ITV found his family home in Tunisia I think the same day as the attack and interviewed his two brothers.
if they can find where he was from why can't the relevant authorities when he was released from jail.

I think there is a misunderstanding here. I believe he was identified as Tunisian but couldn't be deported because his passport had expired. Odd, I know. The new passport arrived 2 days after the atrocity. They also found his ID in the truck.

 

[clubchamp98]

I think there is a misunderstanding here. I believe he was identified as Tunisian but couldn't be deported because his passport had expired. Odd, I know. The new passport arrived 2 days after the atrocity. They also found his ID in the truck.

Someone on the radar as this guy was should be presented with his new passport when the cops are driving him to the airport.
you can go to any passport office and get a new passport the same day .
excuses like this are pathetic and are the reason we are in this state.
terrorists are in our mist so we must be more vigilant and deport any threats straight away.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Someone on the radar as this guy was should be presented with his new passport when the cops are driving him to the airport.
you can go to any passport office and get a new passport the same day .
excuses like this are pathetic and are the reason we are in this state.
terrorists are in our mist so we must be more vigilant and deport any threats straight away.

He was in Germany, his passport has to be issued by Tunisia! One country can't issue a passport on behalf of another, so not really a pathetic excuse is it?

 

[Sweep]

He was in Germany, his passport has to be issued by Tunisia! One country can't issue a passport on behalf of another, so not really a pathetic excuse is it?

Except, why do you need a passport to deport someone?

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Except, why do you need a passport to deport someone?

Because if you can't prove who they are, why should someone else accept them?

 

[SocketRocket]

Allow in the people who have skills we need and can show a willingness to integrate. There should always me allowance for some who are in genuine desperate circumstances but the will to integrate should always be paramount.

 

[Sweep]

Because if you can't prove who they are, why should someone else accept them?

There was no doubt who he was. The Italians knew when they imprisoned him and released him, the Germans knew when they refused him asylum, his ID was found in the lorry.

 

[User20205]

Allow in the people who have skills we need and can show a willingness to integrate. There should always me allowance for some who are in genuine desperate circumstances but the will to integrate should always be paramount.

Nothing too controversial in this. The German model is an experiment in population management, that my German colleagues believe to be failing.

There was no doubt who he was. The Italians knew when they imprisoned him and released him, the Germans knew when they refused him asylum, his ID was found in the lorry.

What if Tunisia didn't want him back? They may think that he's not their problem anymore.

 

[clubchamp98]

He was in Germany, his passport has to be issued by Tunisia! One country can't issue a passport on behalf of another, so not really a pathetic excuse is it?

Yes it is he was in a German prison for years that is when they should have sorted his passport out.
the moment he stepped out of prison he should have been put on the first flight back to Tunisia.
not waited until he is out and free to roam the whole of Europe.
why was he seeking asylum from Tunisia anyway it's not a war zone is It.?

 

[SocketRocket]

Following on from the thread on the Berlin attack where I suggested that an immigrant who committed a crime should expect to be deported back to their home country. Whilst I still maintain this view, it did set me thinking, am I being "anti immigrant"?
For example, as I cannot be deported from the UK, should an immigrant in the U.K. who can, be subjected to another level of "punishment" if we both committed the same crime?
Should we accept immigrants as people who come to live in our "community" and expect them to at least respect our laws and way of life - a " my house, my rules" outlook or should we take less of a community view and see the UK not as our country but more an area of land, suitable for human habitation?
Does the feeling of belonging in a nation matter?
Are we a community?
Is it right to expect certain levels of behaviour from newcomers otherwise we don't want them amongst us?
Is national identity important? Should it be protected?
Does it matter that your parents, grandparents etc paid in, worked and built up a country and fought for a way of life and does immigration dilute that?
Does how you would be treated if you went to live in their country colour your view on how immigrants should be treated in the U.K.?
Does even thinking about this make you feel a little bit racist? If so, do you resent being made to feel this way?

I suspect these are uncomfortable - but nonetheless important questions and how you answer them may form your views on immigration as a whole.

Returning to the original post.

I don't think returning a non British person to their own country if they are a criminal is an additional punishment. It just means they have abused our hospitality, I would expect no less for a Britain in another country.

Yes, I believe an immigrant should respect our Laws and way of life. Regular organised society is something we have worked at for a very long time so that people can live in harmony while respecting other peoples freedoms, anything else would be chaotic.

Belonging to a Nation in it's self is not what matters but the values that promote a good lifestyle and equality are the things that matter.

Yes, we are a community.

It is reasonable to expect certain levels of behavior from everyone but especially newcomers as they need to live up to their part of the agreement and show a respect for the country they have chosen to live in, otherwise why would they want to live in it.

National identity is important as it defines us among our peers as respecting certain virtues that have been established over a long period by our forefathers to make our country a good place to live.

Yes, it matters to me that my ancestors built the country I live in, that they payed and fought to create it. Immigration does not dilute that as long as the immigrant respects it and is prepared to do the same. If I was to emigrate to another country I would expect to do no less.

How I would expect to be treated if I lived in another country does not affect my view of how I treat people living here.

Thinking about these things does not make me feel racist. Thinking about and discussing issues of race should not be labeled racist, this has been overused in recent times and is an unhealthy attitude as it creates animosity by stifling freedom of thought and speech.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Yes it is he was in a German prison for years that is when they should have sorted his passport out.
the moment he stepped out of prison he should have been put on the first flight back to Tunisia.
not waited until he is out and free to roam the whole of Europe.
why was he seeking asylum from Tunisia anyway it's not a war zone is It.?

Incorrect again, Italians had him locked up and when released went to Germany, arrested in August this year on a minor offence, refused asylum and Germans applied to Tunisia for passport to kick him out.
It's not only war zones people apply for asylum from, we've got a swede in Ecuadorian Embassy in London seeking Asylum, some claim Political reasons.

 

[clubchamp98]

Incorrect again, Italians had him locked up and when released went to Germany, arrested in August this year on a minor offence, refused asylum and Germans applied to Tunisia for passport to kick him out.
It's not only war zones people apply for asylum from, we've got a swede in Ecuadorian Embassy in London seeking Asylum, some claim Political reasons.

Fair enough Italian not German prison so the Italian cops should have deported him not let him roam around Europe.
if you can't behave in a liberal country you should not be allowed to stay.

 

[clubchamp98]

I do remember last year a serial rapist who had served his time in an Australian prison for a very long time was deported back to the UK as he was British.
its the governments responsibility to protect the population from this sort of thing and the Aussies have got it right.

 

[2blue]

Mind you, there's an active minority of some groups taking big advantage of the tolerance in the UK.

And there's no one better at it than the Royals with their massive propaganda machine & media manipulation to the point where many Eng citizens would consider acceptance of the Royals & what they stand for, to be a 'British value'. In modern multi-cultural Britain this is nonsense

 

[Hobbit]

And there's no one better at it than the Royals with their massive propaganda machine & media manipulation to the point where many Eng citizens would consider acceptance of the Royals & what they stand for, to be a 'British value'. In modern multi-cultural Britain this is nonsense

I'd like to see some facts to back up that assertion. What form does this mass propaganda take? What untruths are spread?

I wonder how many royal engagements the top three undertake a year? I wonder how many charities use royal patronage as leverage?

All the numbers are out there, easily found.

I wonder how many 90 year olds would undertake over 300 engagements? I wonder how many 68 year olds would do over 500 engagements, or how many 66 year olds would do 550 engagements?

It might be a nonsense to you but I'd like to see you back it up with some facts. What percentage of Brits want to see an end to the monarchy?

 

[2blue]

I'd like to see some facts to back up that assertion. What form does this mass propaganda take? What untruths are spread?

I wonder how many royal engagements the top three undertake a year? I wonder how many charities use royal patronage as leverage?

All the numbers are out there, easily found.

I wonder how many 90 year olds would undertake over 300 engagements? I wonder how many 68 year olds would do over 500 engagements, or how many 66 year olds would do 550 engagements?

It might be a nonsense to you but I'd like to see you back it up with some facts. What percentage of Brits want to see an end to the monarchy?

No thanks Brian, I'll leave others to knockabout numbers...... we have an unelected Head of State .... very undemocratic.
They are very rich but still receive support from the public purse..... many would say that makes them scroungers