Money grabbing and useless

[IanM]

Standard Committee/Golf Club Member understanding.....need to run as a business whatever....hence why golf clubs continually get themselves in a mess.

Not exactly. "Not maximising profit" does not mean it is not a well run business. We run our club on really strict fiscal lines, but being a Member Owned club gives opportunities to do things proprietary clubs won't do.

 

[Robster59]

Standard Committee/Golf Club Member understanding.....need to run as a business whatever....hence why golf clubs continually get themselves in a mess.

Agreed. A lot of clubs have found themselves in a mess as they didn't move with the times and run it in a business like and professional manner. They have to manage their income with their expenditure. The club in question obviously feel they have enough interest to justify the joining fee and I think they've been very fair in giving the OP advance warning. He can see it as a threat if he wishes but they at least let him know.
Money isn't the only consideration when joining a club. It's important but there is a lot more to consider than that.
All the other bits about the clubhouse being closed is totally out of the clubs power. We are Tier 4 in Scotland so our clubhouse is closed but we can still use the course.
The issue about the course being closed when others aren't is more a cause for concern.

 

[sunshine]

I had a meeting with a new golf club last week. They have an age band that makes it just about affordable for me - and because their year runs May to April, they did a deal for us so it's cheaper still for the Jan to April period. No joining fee. He even said we can play for free in December if we want. And it's only down the road from me, 10 mins drive or less. Couldn't have been simpler.

They must be desperate

 

[Orikoru]

They must be desperate

Anyone who wants me as a member must be yeah. Just wait til I turn up in my black ankle socks.

 

[sunshine]

Yet the vast majority of clubs that are closing down are Proprietary Clubs.

I have noticed this too. I can't help think that this is mainly because the proprietary clubs going under are generally newer and built on poorer sites.

The private members clubs have been around for a hundred years and were built on prime golfing terrain at a time when there was much more space available.

 

[IanM]

I have noticed this too. I can't help think that this is mainly because the proprietary clubs going under are generally newer and built on poorer sites.

The private members clubs have been around for a hundred years and were built on prime golfing terrain at a time when there was much more space available.

All of the courses closed near here in the past 15 years (SE Wales) were proprietary and built on "farmland" in the boom of the late 1980s and 1990s. Shirenewton, Dewstow, Raglan and Alice Springs.

 

[sunshine]

All of the courses closed near here in the past 15 years (SE Wales) were proprietary and built on "farmland" in the boom of the late 1980s and 1990s. Shirenewton, Dewstow, Raglan and Alice Springs.

Exactly.

You can't do much with a sow's ear. However well they are run, these courses could never compete with the product available at somewhere like Porthcawl.

 

[IanM]

Those courses were competing with Celtic Manor, St Pierre, Llanwern and Newport. (2 Resports, 2 Private) Were fine as overspill, but never had the traffic or investment to keep up the quality of golf course.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I have noticed this too. I can't help think that this is mainly because the proprietary clubs going under are generally newer and built on poorer sites.

The private members clubs have been around for a hundred years and were built on prime golfing terrain at a time when there was much more space available.

You may have a point. We were ticking along nicely until Ascot Authority gave us notice to move because they wanted to rebuild the grandstand and move the race course. We were forced to find £1m+ to pay for the club house while they paid for the course to be designed and built. We were always running at a small profit which was reinvested back in the club but suddenly had a whopping hole in finances. We've never had a huge reserve and as a result we've had to limit on tighter margins. We had turned a corner thanks in part to the Red Bull air-race money we had over three years. However a really wet winter last year where we were closed for periods (very unusual) and then Covid so we are running at a lost but as a members club it is something we'll find a way to cope with. We'll be 134 years old next year and have gone through lows before and survived so I'm not worried and have faith in the board and the GM

 

[Slab]

You may have a point. We were ticking along nicely until Ascot Authority gave us notice to move because they wanted to rebuild the grandstand and move the race course. We were forced to find £1m+ to pay for the club house while they paid for the course to be designed and built. We were always running at a small profit which was reinvested back in the club but suddenly had a whopping hole in finances. We've never had a huge reserve and as a result we've had to limit on tighter margins. We had turned a corner thanks in part to the Red Bull air-race money we had over three years. However a really wet winter last year where we were closed for periods (very unusual) and then Covid so we are running at a lost but as a members club it is something we'll find a way to cope with. We'll be 134 years old next year and have gone through lows before and survived so I'm not worried and have faith in the board and the GM

I get that private member clubs may well explore different survival options that more commercial ventures might not... but that can also means you can get a bit of 'Triggers new broom' syndrome cropping up

5 new clubhouses and 3 new courses, same club for 134 years!

 

[Bermuda]

Well things have picked up here at Golf HQ, and on a personal note I am off for discussions with The Neville and Royal Ashdown Forest. I am going into those discussions with a fresh mind in the hope that my desire to find membership of a decent club in the broadly local area to where I live can now be found. Onwards and upwards

 

[SammmeBee]

I get that private member clubs may well explore different survival options that more commercial ventures might not... but that can also means you can get a bit of 'Triggers new broom' syndrome cropping up

5 new clubhouses and 3 new courses, same club for 134 years!

And running at a loss in these times where golf clubs have saved much in wages, rates, VAT and have so much new membership income despite other drops in income.

Also why did they have to spend £1m+ on a new clubhouse if they didn’t have the money, when the previous luxury scout hut model was perfectly fit for purpose. A business decision?

 

[howbow88]

Well things have picked up here at Golf HQ, and on a personal note I am off for discussions with The Neville and Royal Ashdown Forest. I am going into those discussions with a fresh mind in the hope that my desire to find membership of a decent club in the broadly local area to where I live can now be found. Onwards and upwards

Best of luck.

Did you try out Crowborough Beacon or Dale Hill?

 

[sunshine]

And running at a loss in these times where golf clubs have saved much in wages, rates, VAT and have so much new membership income despite other drops in income.

The savings in wages etc help but do not reduce the costs to zero. For many clubs, revenue from societies, weddings etc has been zero this year but there are still residual costs.

Although you are right about an increase in membership, there is a capacity limit to the number of new members a club can accommodate without disrupting the experience for the existing members.

Really tough strategic decisions to be made by golf clubs now: accept 2020 as a freak year and swallow the short term pain on the basis that everything will go back to "normal", or make the call that things are going to be different long term and change the business model.

 

[Bermuda]

Best of luck.

Did you try out Crowborough Beacon or Dale Hill?

CB will only meet me via Teams as they are working from home, no comment re DH

 

[Canary_Yellow]

royal ashdown is a fair old journey from Wadhurst, isn’t it?

I know you’re not a huge fan of Nevill, but it is a decent course with a decent membership base and it’s not far at all. I’d go for that personally

 

[spongebob59]

royal ashdown is a fair old journey from Wadhurst, isn’t it?

I know you’re not a huge fan of Nevill, but it is a decent course with a decent membership base and it’s not far at all. I’d go for that personally

Doesnt the nevill get very wet in the winter ?
Every time i played there, the lower lying parts were very boogy.
That aside its a lovely track

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Well things have picked up here at Golf HQ, and on a personal note I am off for discussions with The Neville and Royal Ashdown Forest. I am going into those discussions with a fresh mind in the hope that my desire to find membership of a decent club in the broadly local area to where I live can now be found. Onwards and upwards

At least there is some forward movement. Hopefully you'll find somewhere soon that you want to call home and can enjoy year round golf with decent members

 

[Canary_Yellow]

Doesnt the nevill get very wet in the winter ?
Every time i played there, the lower lying parts were very boogy.
That aside its a lovely track

Don’t most courses in the area? You’re probably right about nevill, but I can’t think of a course in the area that doesn’t, other than kings hill

 

[Smiffy]

"CB will only meet me via Teams as they are working from home"

Can you elaborate on this as I don't fully understand what you mean??? Maybe I am being thick or something.....that wouldn't be the first time to be fair.
Out of all the things you say you want from a golf club, Crowborough Beacon still sounds favourite to me. Membership is a bit high at just over £1,500.00 full playing, but according to their website, the joining fee has been suspended. It's about the going rate though for a quality course down South. The driving distance from Wadhurst to Crowborough is about 8 miles. Most people would give their eye teeth to have a course of this quality so close to their home.
It's one of the best courses in the area and drains reasonably well. It doesn't have the best practice facilities around I'll grant you, but during my membership there I managed to get down to 10 by utilising them together with a few lessons from the pro and playing a lot.
How much lower do you want to go???
Bearing in mind that your very first post enquiring about membership in East Sussex was on the 24th November, you've only given it two weeks!!
I absolutely loved being a member there. I considered it an honour and a privilege to be able to wear the club tie. I only left because I moved away from the area, if I were still living in Uckfield, the chances are I would still be a member there.
The current climate is making it difficult for everybody. You may need to "jump through a few hoops" at the moment to get membership somewhere, but I certainly wouldn't give up after two weeks.
Unless the quoted words of yours above meant you had to stand in a candle lit room with one trouser leg rolled up holding half an orange and chanting a mantra, I'd not be put off.