Fitting... who and what to believe

[TheJezster]

I find that AG are pretty much spot on. They'd be pretty stupid to not optimise their quad machines properly in this day and age.

I had a couple of fittings recently, woods and irons.

Woods was first, literally just before lockdown. The new SIM Woods are beasts, they have added a ton of distance to my drives. Not only on the monitor, but more importantly, on the course too. So much so I don't use the driver on my course, 3 wood is more than enough.

I've found I'm hitting them further on course than stated in the fitting.

So don't let the fitting put you off, if you want to change, you can get more distance. It's also OK to go with what you know too, so if you want a rogue again, go with that.

 

[Pickles]

Go back to the decent course with the decent pro and see what he thinks. You never know he might be a Taylormade stockist ?

Fitters can be irregular wherever they work. Not just AG (their retail processes don't help the situation at times).

 

[need_my_wedge]

My Q is: is it possible to have two contrasting fitting experiences within a year (my handicap hasn't changed, and if anything I'm hitting it better than I ever have with the rogue I was set up last year for). And can I trust the launch monitor readings at AG (though they were compared to my Rogue in fairness!). Please HELP!!

The answer to your questions is yes.

My local AG has GC Quad systems in their nets, as do most of their stores I believe. This is a top bit of kit and should give good data on your swing. The question should be, was your swing on the second fitting exactly the same as your swing on the first, the answer is unlikely. My pro uses a GC Quad during my lessons, I can put 20 different swings in play during the same session. There are so many moving parts in my body that affect the swing path angle and swing speed, I can go from 4 degrees in to out, to 8 degrees out to in, in the space of two swings on occasion. The fitter you see can only assess the data and fit the best option for what you are doing on the day.

With regards to trusting the fitter in AG over a good pro, that will depend on who fits you and how good they are. Some of the fitters in AG are also good pro's, although not all good pro's are good fitters. Equally, some of the staff are not PGA pro's but are good fitters, of course some are not.

My youngest is doing a degree in professional golf, he's interested in club fitting and has spent a lot of time learning about it during his first year. He works in AG part time and of course does fittings as part of his job, which gives him valuable experience. He may not be a great fitter yet, but he is a good fitter, and he offers solid advice. It depends on whether you are interested in particular clubs or have a particular budget as a starting point. From there recommendations are based on what suits your data, maybe the club you had your eye on doesn't perform as well as you hoped it would, maybe it's better than expected, maybe a comparable club is better still, maybe your budget becomes less or more of a barrier, whatever influences occur during the fitting he will only be able to fit with what the store stocks, or can supply. That will include last years model if still available or in stock, especially if budget is a factor.

As a business, AG is a shop, they are there to sell the latest golf gear. Like most sales businesses, the staff have targets to hit and instructions to follow to reach those targets, that's not something I would hold against them, I expect it. Having said that, I also expect the fitter to give honest advice and try to sell me the best option for me at the time of fitting. If I don't feel comfortable with their recommendation, I'll question it, I can choose not to buy, especially if I feel my swing wasn't so good on the day (I had 3 fittings and a range session before I chose my Cobra driver). I can of course choose to ignore the advice and buy something else too. Not all AG are alike, there are some on here who are not overly happy with them, but personally, my experience at my local AG has always been pretty good, even before the boy worked there.

 

[Grant85]

If your head is scrambled, regardless of what the fitter has seen and told you, it's not a good fit. A good fitter should be able to explain the numbers and inspire confidence about why a club is suited to you.

You will always have a bit of nagging that either your club is not right (especially after a bad day, which you will have at some point) or you've been ripped off by an AG sales rep who coincidentally put one of the most expensive clubs in the shop in your hands.

I had a bad experience with AG previously having a 'fitting' for a Driver. Ended up with a stiff shafted SLDR @ 10.5 deg. I could hit the odd one ok, but for the next year or two, driving became a real misery. Eventually did a lot more research on the SLDR and realised it wasn't the club for me at all. Especially stiff shaft and at 10.5 deg.

 

[Orikoru]

The only time I book an American Golf fitting is when I just want to try out a number of different clubs - just to get a feel for them rather than look at numbers - for free. If I want an in-depth fitting I'd go somewhere else where they normally charge you say £40 and take it off the final club price if you buy. Did that for my driver last year and putter 3.5 years ago, and they're two of my favourite clubs in the bag.

 

[Ethan]

Looking for advice...

Got fitted last year at a decent course with a decent pro. He didn't try to rip me off, and I walked out paying £260 for a rogue draw in a stiff shaft, 10.5 turned down a degree.

I play on a windy links, asked for something that has no higher than a mid ball flight, and that I can't lose right. The club is bl***** brilliant.

I took my wee boy to the range, and he had a go with 'Dad's Big Bertha' as he calls it, and promptly wrapped it around one of the steel girders. Deep breath time.

So, this weekend I booked into a local American Golf, thinking I'd get an M6. a) cos it was cheap, and good reviews, and b) cos I couldn't bear shelling out the same money just to re-buy another Rogue.

At this fitting, he's told me I need a regular shaft, 10.5 head with and extra half a degree 'added on'. And, he told me I needed the SIM Max, at an eye-watering £400. However, despite not feeling like I hit it that well, he was showing me an extra 4MPH ball speed compared to my rogue, and 20+ yards in overall distance. My head was and is battered!

My Q is: is it possible to have two contrasting fitting experiences within a year (my handicap hasn't changed, and if anything I'm hitting it better than I ever have with the rogue I was set up last year for). And can I trust the launch monitor readings at AG (though they were compared to my Rogue in fairness!). Please HELP!!

Easy to explain.

At the fitter, you were fitted. At AG you were fitted up.

It is the golfing equivalent of getting some surgery done at the finest hospital, then getting the next part at Kwik-Fit.

AG does not fit golfers, it sells them stuff it wants to shift at the highest margins. You can't trust the monitor readings there. A former manager at a AG store told me they routinely 'enhanced' them.

 

[Robster59]

AG might have the latest kit in the place but for me it's no use unless the person operating the kit is up to the task, and that is my concern. How knowledgable are they to know that what they are offering you is best for you or just their best guess? Because there are so many AG sites, the quality of service being offered can vary considerably.
Personally, I'd go to a pro or, if it's a Taylor Made you really want, go to an approved Taylor Made fitting facility.
When I got fitted for my irons I went to the Callaway fitting site at St. Andrews. I tried numerous heads and shafts before I got the right configuration.
Here is a good place to start looking:
https://www.taylormadegolf.co.uk/fitting.html

 

[Zig]

The answer to your questions is yes.

My local AG has GC Quad systems in their nets, as do most of their stores I believe. This is a top bit of kit and should give good data on your swing. The question should be, was your swing on the second fitting exactly the same as your swing on the first, the answer is unlikely. My pro uses a GC Quad during my lessons, I can put 20 different swings in play during the same session. There are so many moving parts in my body that affect the swing path angle and swing speed, I can go from 4 degrees in to out, to 8 degrees out to in, in the space of two swings on occasion. The fitter you see can only assess the data and fit the best option for what you are doing on the day.

With regards to trusting the fitter in AG over a good pro, that will depend on who fits you and how good they are. Some of the fitters in AG are also good pro's, although not all good pro's are good fitters. Equally, some of the staff are not PGA pro's but are good fitters, of course some are not.

My youngest is doing a degree in professional golf, he's interested in club fitting and has spent a lot of time learning about it during his first year. He works in AG part time and of course does fittings as part of his job, which gives him valuable experience. He may not be a great fitter yet, but he is a good fitter, and he offers solid advice. It depends on whether you are interested in particular clubs or have a particular budget as a starting point. From there recommendations are based on what suits your data, maybe the club you had your eye on doesn't perform as well as you hoped it would, maybe it's better than expected, maybe a comparable club is better still, maybe your budget becomes less or more of a barrier, whatever influences occur during the fitting he will only be able to fit with what the store stocks, or can supply. That will include last years model if still available or in stock, especially if budget is a factor.

As a business, AG is a shop, they are there to sell the latest golf gear. Like most sales businesses, the staff have targets to hit and instructions to follow to reach those targets, that's not something I would hold against them, I expect it. Having said that, I also expect the fitter to give honest advice and try to sell me the best option for me at the time of fitting. If I don't feel comfortable with their recommendation, I'll question it, I can choose not to buy, especially if I feel my swing wasn't so good on the day (I had 3 fittings and a range session before I chose my Cobra driver). I can of course choose to ignore the advice and buy something else too. Not all AG are alike, there are some on here who are not overly happy with them, but personally, my experience at my local AG has always been pretty good, even before the boy worked there.

Thanks for taking the time to give such a detailed response.

 

[Sats]

Looking for advice...

Got fitted last year at a decent course with a decent pro. He didn't try to rip me off, and I walked out paying £260 for a rogue draw in a stiff shaft, 10.5 turned down a degree.

I play on a windy links, asked for something that has no higher than a mid ball flight, and that I can't lose right. The club is bl***** brilliant.

I took my wee boy to the range, and he had a go with 'Dad's Big Bertha' as he calls it, and promptly wrapped it around one of the steel girders. Deep breath time.

So, this weekend I booked into a local American Golf, thinking I'd get an M6. a) cos it was cheap, and good reviews, and b) cos I couldn't bear shelling out the same money just to re-buy another Rogue.

At this fitting, he's told me I need a regular shaft, 10.5 head with and extra half a degree 'added on'. And, he told me I needed the SIM Max, at an eye-watering £400. However, despite not feeling like I hit it that well, he was showing me an extra 4MPH ball speed compared to my rogue, and 20+ yards in overall distance. My head was and is battered!

My Q is: is it possible to have two contrasting fitting experiences within a year (my handicap hasn't changed, and if anything I'm hitting it better than I ever have with the rogue I was set up last year for). And can I trust the launch monitor readings at AG (though they were compared to my Rogue in fairness!). Please HELP!!

Try going through insurance. or if that fails via Callaway they may fix the problem as the Rogue is 2 years old and should still be under their warranty. I'd not bother with AG as their fitting process isn't up to standard (imho) and they are only interested in taking your money and they love to massage your ego and go on distance rather than feel, looks, dispersion etc.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Try going through insurance. or if that fails via Callaway they may fix the problem as the Rogue is 2 years old and should still be under their warranty. I'd not bother with AG as their fitting process isn't up to standard (imho) and they are only interested in taking your money and they love to massage your ego and go on distance rather than feel, looks, dispersion etc.

This. Callaway have no compunction to offer anything for a user accident and so don't be disappointed if they say no. However if you go to a local pro who has a Cally contract and stocks their gear he may be able to send it back if the insurance say they'll pay out. ANother example of AG overly pushing a golfer into a product they didn't feel happy with and with the largest mark up. While it is a retail business, they base their reputation on helping golfers enjoy the game more. How can you do that if they are pushing you into a driver you don't really want or aren't hitting as well?

 

[Grizzly]

I think I may have said this before, so apologies if I am repeating myself, but there are good American Golf stores and bad ones. I was fitted for my irons at Northolt and the fitter actively encouraged me to go for some Wilson C300 forged irons which were comfortably cheaper than the four other options I wanted to try. Equally, at Monument, I'm certain that the monitors were jacked!

 

[Pickles]

I think I may have said this before, so apologies if I am repeating myself, but there are good American Golf stores and bad ones. I was fitted for my irons at Northolt and the fitter actively encouraged me to go for some Wilson C300 forged irons which were comfortably cheaper than the four other options I wanted to try. Equally, at Monument, I'm certain that the monitors were jacked!

Margin on the Wilsons is considerably larger than most and thus their spiv. Doesn't mean it was why you were pushed in that direction but it is fitters discretion etc.

If they perform well it doesn't matter ?

 

[jonny1409]

I would honestly just buy another Rogue 2nd hand, with same shaft etc. You should be able to find one. If you liked it that much why not save yourself a few quid?

100% this.
Whilst technology moves fast, there's no substitute for the confidence gained by having a club you hit really well!

 

[Orikoru]

100% this.
Whilst technology moves fast, there's no substitute for the confidence gained by having a club you hit really well!

Rogues are only one model old as well, I doubt driver technology has shot past it in 18 months or whatever. I did my fitting last year in October and the Rogue was the other one I nearly went with - an excellent driver.

 

[Foxholer]

Looking for advice...

Got fitted last year at a decent course with a decent pro. He didn't try to rip me off, and I walked out paying £260 for a rogue draw in a stiff shaft, 10.5 turned down a degree.

I play on a windy links, asked for something that has no higher than a mid ball flight, and that I can't lose right. The club is bl***** brilliant.

I took my wee boy to the range, and he had a go with 'Dad's Big Bertha' as he calls it, and promptly wrapped it around one of the steel girders. Deep breath time.

So, this weekend I booked into a local American Golf, thinking I'd get an M6. a) cos it was cheap, and good reviews, and b) cos I couldn't bear shelling out the same money just to re-buy another Rogue.

At this fitting, he's told me I need a regular shaft, 10.5 head with and extra half a degree 'added on'. And, he told me I needed the SIM Max, at an eye-watering £400. However, despite not feeling like I hit it that well, he was showing me an extra 4MPH ball speed compared to my rogue, and 20+ yards in overall distance. My head was and is battered!

My Q is: is it possible to have two contrasting fitting experiences within a year (my handicap hasn't changed, and if anything I'm hitting it better than I ever have with the rogue I was set up last year for). And can I trust the launch monitor readings at AG (though they were compared to my Rogue in fairness!). Please HELP!!

Two points you need to bear in mind....

1. Your/The Pro fitted you to what you specified - Mid flight, no Right! The AG guy seems to have fitted you to 'Max Distance' - when hit in the middle of the club!
2. The AG guy is also in the business of extracting as much cash as poss from customers, while your/the Pro is much more likely to be interested in fitting you into something that works well/as specified!

Having played a lot of links golf, I'm quite prepared to sacrifice 20 yards or more to be playing from the short stuff (or semi at worst)!

Personally, I'd be inclined to check out Ebay for a Rogue Draw in Stiff, though prices don't appear to have dropped much from you original. Plenty of standard (not Draw) ones though.

 

[Orikoru]

Golfbidder have a Rogue Draw for £210
https://www.golfbidder.co.uk/product/1035172/Callaway_Rogue_Draw.html

That's a regular shaft but I presume there's nothing wrong with the shaft from your original one so you can just swap them over? Then sell this regular shaft on Ebay again to make a few quid back if you want.

The head is a bit beaten up on that one, this one looks better for £236:
https://www.golfbidder.co.uk/product/1035101/Callaway_Rogue_Draw.html

 

[Zig]

Golfbidder have a Rogue Draw for £210
https://www.golfbidder.co.uk/product/1035172/Callaway_Rogue_Draw.html

That's a regular shaft but I presume there's nothing wrong with the shaft from your original one so you can just swap them over? Then sell this regular shaft on Ebay again to make a few quid back if you want.

The head is a bit beaten up on that one, this one looks better for £236:
https://www.golfbidder.co.uk/product/1035101/Callaway_Rogue_Draw.html

Thx for all your help - really appreciate it.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Two points you need to bear in mind....

1. Your/The Pro fitted you to what you specified - Mid flight, no Right! The AG guy seems to have fitted you to 'Max Distance' - when hit in the middle of the club!
2. The AG guy is also in the business of extracting as much cash as poss from customers, while your/the Pro is much more likely to be interested in fitting you into something that works well/as specified!

Having played a lot of links golf, I'm quite prepared to sacrifice 20 yards or more to be playing from the short stuff (or semi at worst)!

Personally, I'd be inclined to check out Ebay for a Rogue Draw in Stiff, though prices don't appear to have dropped much from you original. Plenty of standard (not Draw) ones though.

I think the pro definitely has a longer term picture for their members. A good fitting and a happy golfer will do a lot for repeat sales. AG has no customer loyalty (and that is to be expected given their business model) and so will point a customer to those brands with the largest mark up and do what they can to get a sale on the day. I have used AG for club purchases but have also been lucky to have had a couple of club pros who would do the best deal possible and have taken an interest in how the clubs I purchased are working.

 

[TheJezster]

I think the pro definitely has a longer term picture for their members. A good fitting and a happy golfer will do a lot for repeat sales. AG has no customer loyalty (and that is to be expected given their business model) and so will point a customer to those brands with the largest mark up and do what they can to get a sale on the day. I have used AG for club purchases but have also been lucky to have had a couple of club pros who would do the best deal possible and have taken an interest in how the clubs I purchased are working.

Yea, the AG at New Malden for example is excellent. They have the professionals doing the club fitting, I believe there are only 3 who do it there.

From my experience they were very attentive and my fitter wouldn't let me walk away until he'd found the right shaft and combo for me. Didn't try to push me in any particular direction, other than shafts, which were the best ones of all I tried.

When I decided to buy, he was also very good at trying to get a deal for me too. I could have just paid rrp but he wouldn't let me until he'd got some off. And gave me some balls too

I definitely wouldn't hesitate to recommend them, especially the fitter I had both sessions.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Yea, the AG at New Malden for example is excellent. They have the professionals doing the club fitting, I believe there are only 3 who do it there.

From my experience they were very attentive and my fitter wouldn't let me walk away until he'd found the right shaft and combo for me. Didn't try to push me in any particular direction, other than shafts, which were the best ones of all I tried.

When I decided to buy, he was also very good at trying to get a deal for me too. I could have just paid rrp but he wouldn't let me until he'd got some off. And gave me some balls too

I definitely wouldn't hesitate to recommend them, especially the fitter I had both sessions.

Definitely some good ones out there and AG New Malden is definitely one of their flagship stores. One of my biggest issues with AG fittings and it may be different at a flagship store like this, is they don't carry a wide stock of shafts. There may be three or four different types but usually in an R or S flex. I had some bad fittings historically and so of course it will have jaundiced my view but with that in mind, going forward I'd go to a specialist fitting centre like Silvermere, Golf Principles etc, a company's fitting centre (Callaway at Chessington etc) or company demo day at a club or range. My pro is a fitter for Callaway and Ping so has a decent range of their stock shafts but again a fitting with him is limited by choice although I'd trust his monitor figures more