Mixed (Saturday) Golf

[balaclava]

My Club is discussing ways of opening Saturday competition to ladies. Every Saturday (outside winter) there is a (mens) competition of the white tees (90% stroke-play / 10% stableford). Questions that pop into my head are - if ladies are allowed to play in that. how do they do this and make it 'fair.' It has been suggested that there are precedents i.e. it is done at other Clubs.

Is this done at any other Club?

 

[Fish]

Off for more popcorn ?

 

[IanM]

I assume you mean the vast majority of these are comps are medals? The rules police will be piling in to say that both are off 95%

I might be being daft, but as all tees are now assessed for WHS, anyone can play as the tee has a rating for them... unless you have not had white tees assessed for ladies.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

All our weekend medals and Stablefords are open to all

The ladies just play of their tee and the required shot adjustment ( if any ) is added to their score - difference between the par and CR for medal and then the difference between the two CR’s for Stableford - that might have changed for WHS

There is nothing much more to do than that

 

[Bdill93]

My Club is discussing ways of opening Saturday competition to ladies. Every Saturday (outside winter) there is a (mens) competition of the white tees (90% stroke-play / 10% stableford). Questions that pop into my head are - if ladies are allowed to play in that. how do they do this and make it 'fair.' It has been suggested that there are precedents i.e. it is done at other Clubs.

Is this done at any other Club?

All our saturday comps are mixed, have been for years. Ladies get to play off their handicaps from red tees, or in some, move back to white and gain 2 shots. All pre-WHS! Unsure if changes are coming

 

[balaclava]

All our saturday comps are mixed, have been for years. Ladies get to play off their handicaps from red tees, or in some, move back to white and gain 2 shots. All pre-WHS! Unsure if changes are coming

Most Clubs, including mine, allocate the Ladies a day (Tuesdays) where they have priority (Ladies day) this was done because they could not play in the men's Saturday competitions; if they can now play the men's Saturday competitions do they lose Tuesday?.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Most Clubs, including mine, allocate the Ladies a day (Tuesdays) where they have priority (Ladies day) this was done because they could not play in the men's Saturday competitions; if they can now play the men's Saturday competitions do they lose Tuesday?.

Off for more popcorn ?

I suggest you get even more popcorn!!

 

[Doodle]

My club is very slowly moving in this direction, they have just introduced mixed 4BBB on certain Sunday's.
The ladies have a ladies day on Tuesdays & we do have several "open to all" comps on weekends throughout the season.

Most of the members would have no problem with every comp (except the board comps) being open to all.
My club is quite traditional in its views, so I think this will come in time.

 

[jim8flog]

On Saturdays we run both a ladies and a mens comps as separate comps as there are enough ladies who want to play in one. Ladies play off the reds.

In our mid week and Sunday comps ladies are allowed to play in the same comp, they play off the red tees and get course adjustment shots.

If the club want both sexes to play off the same tee the tee has to be rated for both sexes under the WHS system.

I see no reason for ladies losing there Tuesday just because they can play in other comps on other days. At our club the ladies play for a trophy on most Tuesdays.

We have a Seniors Monday comp every other week - should the club stop those just because the seniors can play in club comps if they wish?

 

[need_my_wedge]

All our weekend medals and Stablefords are open to all

The ladies just play of their tee and the required shot adjustment ( if any ) is added to their score - difference between the par and CR for medal and then the difference between the two CR’s for Stableford - that might have changed for WHS

There is nothing much more to do than that

Most Clubs, including mine, allocate the Ladies a day (Tuesdays) where they have priority (Ladies day) this was done because they could not play in the men's Saturday competitions; if they can now play the men's Saturday competitions do they lose Tuesday?.

I play at the same club as Phil, and your second question is always a bone of contention. Like Phil says, all our Saturday medals and Stablefords are inclusive and have been for years. However, the ladies block book Tuesday for their own comps, which are exclusive of men. They originally did this so that they had a ladies day, but continue to do this since all main comps are mixed, and continue to exclude the men from their comps. Personally, I think this is wrong, if the main "mens" comps are now inclusive, then the ladies should be too.

 

[clubchamp98]

Most Clubs, including mine, allocate the Ladies a day (Tuesdays) where they have priority (Ladies day) this was done because they could not play in the men's Saturday competitions; if they can now play the men's Saturday competitions do they lose Tuesday?.

The ladies did play in our sat comps but refused to give up any tee times on Tuesday for male members.
Most of the ladies didn’t want to play Saturday but a handful used equal right argument to get it through.
This caused a lot of bad feeling at the club.
“Cake and eat it “ was the main argument.
It got to the stage where an agreement was made that the ladies don’t enter the sat comps and the men don’t play in the ladies on Tuesday.
It all came to a head when some men could not get a tee time on a sat but times were “ set aside for the ladies”
Then there were spare tee times on a Tuesday but men could not use them.
All a bit of a mess.
They should have just made all comps open to all.
The downside for the ladies is they all pay full fees now , they only paid 6 days before because of a handful of ladies who wanted to play sat.
There is only one simple answer and that’s comps open to all.
But most of the ladies don’t want that , that’s their choice.

 

[Canary_Yellow]

I don’t know how you make the comp fair, but increasing access to the course at weekends for ladies is a really good thing. The men dominating the tee (if not having more or less exclusive access) on weekend mornings is another one of those throwbacks to a different era - if golf wants more young women taking up the game, or staying in the game beyond their teenage years, it’s essential.

Probably quite a few clubs that are already good at it, I’ve seen plenty that aren’t though!

 

[Bdill93]

Most Clubs, including mine, allocate the Ladies a day (Tuesdays) where they have priority (Ladies day) this was done because they could not play in the men's Saturday competitions; if they can now play the men's Saturday competitions do they lose Tuesday?.

Why would they lose ladies day? All its doing is making weekends more inclusive. What about women who work in the week?

Do you have a seniors day?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

We have a Seniors Monday comp every other week - should the club stop those just because the seniors can play in club comps if they wish?

They should stop making the times exclusive for Seniors, absolutely. It grates me enormously that on every bank holiday Monday I can't get out on my own course for the prime spots in the morning as the retired seniors have them exclusively to themselves.

 

[Mandofred]

I play at the same club as Phil, and your second question is always a bone of contention. Like Phil says, all our Saturday medals and Stablefords are inclusive and have been for years. However, the ladies block book Tuesday for their own comps, which are exclusive of men. They originally did this so that they had a ladies day, but continue to do this since all main comps are mixed, and continue to exclude the men from their comps. Personally, I think this is wrong, if the main "mens" comps are now inclusive, then the ladies should be too.

Yep....ladies can play in our medals....only a few do. Tuesdays still blocked for a lot of the mornings...even with some blank tee times. I can understand women not being comfortable being thrown in with disgusting obnoxious fella's (me), maybe they could be included on the medal days and booked with other women? No idea....but blocking the Tuesdays off doesn't come across as being very fair. We have a number of rollup groups (if they ever return....please) that anybody can play in. Old, young, ladies....even.....Americans.

 

[Yorkshire Hacker]

I've been at my club for 18 years, and I have never known anything different. We have ALWAYS had Ladies playing with us on a Saturday.
There was a different CSS of course, and the WHS situation will change things, but I don't really see it as a problem.
I tend to get a little hot under the collar when I see a lady winning comps off 54 handicap, but they're not in my division.
It will be interesting to see how things change when we re-commence under WHS.

 

[Foxholer]

None of the clubs I've belonged have ever had an issue with both sexes playing in Saturday comps - though separate competitions.
The only issue was at 1 club where certain (but not all) tee times were 'block-booked' for Ladies, but as a 2-course club, this was never a big issue.
I can't see the point (except where there are only a handful of Ladies) of combining both sexes into a single comp off different tees!

 

[Lord Tyrion]

None of the clubs I've belonged have ever had an issue with both sexes playing in Saturday comps - though separate competitions.

I can't see the point (except where there are only a handful of Ladies) of combining both sexes into a single comp off different tees!

This seems the best option to me. Run the comps separately, allow equal opportunity to book the tee slots.

 

[IanMcC]

Our Wednesday and Friday Stableford Comps are open to all. This was fine under CONGU, but there are problems under WHS.
On ClubV1 it automatically applied Appendix O under CONGU, and it also gave you the option of giving one group bonus shots. (Appendix O allowed for the difference between Par and SSS, which is now basically Course rating.)
The old Appendix O adjustment is supposed to take place in the CH to PH calculation, but it simply isn't being done. I have written to ClubV1 and they wrote back saying it is, but after running a couple of comps post changeover it definitely isnt.
I have written again, and will keep badgering them until its fixed. Currently having to perform manual adjustments, which will mean that the posted result to HDID may be incorrect.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

This seems the best option to me. Run the comps separately, allow equal opportunity to book the tee slots.

Why not have them as one single comp ? The processes and ability are there to allow everyone to play in the same competition- no need to separate because of sex.