Mickleson 2_shot or DQ?

[Imurg]

I'm not sure we can equate what Dyson did to what Phil did.
There's the element of doubt that Dyson was having a brain fart or properly cheating. Also he didn't apply the penalty or have the penalty applied at the time. The Tour obviously felt there was an element of dishonesty with Dyson.
No such doubt with what Phil did.

 

[Slab]

I'm not sure we can equate what Dyson did to what Phil did.
There's the element of doubt that Dyson was having a brain fart or properly cheating. Also he didn't apply the penalty or have the penalty applied at the time. The Tour obviously felt there was an element of dishonesty with Dyson.
No such doubt with what Phil did.

Not really, for Dyson, the panel found it was "a momentary aberration on his part, not a premeditated act of cheating"

In short it was less of an offense than Phil's was because there was no aberration for PM, his rule breach was premeditated, he told us that, and since both rules carry a 2 shot pen if breached it follows that on any scale of 'seriousness' they are identical in their severity


Dyson wasn't banned for handing in an incorrect score, that was the DQ penalty

 

[Bunkermagnet]

I’ve come to the conclusion that good ole Phil is too well known and liked to be DQ’d no matter what he does.
The USGA is never going to punish its favoured members, so any excuse will do.

 

[Orikoru]

New quote from Phil

"I know this should've come sooner, but it's taken me a few days to calm down. My anger and frustration got the best of me last weekend. I'm embarrassed and disappointed by my actions. It was clearly not my finest moment and I'm sorry."

Changing his story a bit. That's more in line with what I thought happened, in which he just lost his head for a moment. His biggest mistake was trying to explain it as if he deliberately took the 2 shot penalty, that made it sound much worse than it was and caused the backlash. He should have just said straight away "I'd had enough and I lost it for a moment. Shouldn't have done it but it is what it is." and I think we could have all related to that more.

 

[13Aces]

New quote from Phil

"I know this should've come sooner, but it's taken me a few days to calm down. My anger and frustration got the best of me last weekend. I'm embarrassed and disappointed by my actions. It was clearly not my finest moment and I'm sorry."

Changing his story a bit. That's more in line with what I thought happened, in which he just lost his head for a moment. His biggest mistake was trying to explain it as if he deliberately took the 2 shot penalty, that made it sound much worse than it was and caused the backlash. He should have just said straight away "I'd had enough and I lost it for a moment. Shouldn't have done it but it is what it is." and I think we could have all related to that more.

Absolutely 100% agree with you there. It was the ridiculous way he attempted to cover it up that damned him in my opinion. He simply "lost it". Should have been honest at the time.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Absolutely 100% agree with you there. It was the ridiculous way he attempted to cover it up that damned him in my opinion. He simply "lost it". Should have been honest at the time.

But as others have said - when each one of us does something really, really stupid and are picked up on it immediately, I suspect that we one and all we will try and find an excuse that makes us look and feel better for our stupidity and embarrassment - it's what the human instinct of self-will will tell us to do.

Acceptance of what we have done and the need to do the 'right' thing - to apologise or 'fuss up' - will often soon follow, and we can each just ask for understanding that these things happen and accept whatever might then transpire - that just might be reprimand and embarrassment but if it is some penalty or whatever then so be it. We know that doing the 'right' thing is better for us in the long run.

And for the rest of us? Well forgiveness is the best thing to do. What PM did does not make me a Phil-hater or indeed change my view of him one iota.

 

[clubchamp98]

But as others have said - when each one of us does something really, really stupid and are picked up on it immediately, I suspect that we one and all we will try and find an excuse that makes us look and feel better for our stupidity and embarrassment - it's what the human instinct of self-will will tell us to do.

Acceptance of what we have done and the need to do the 'right' thing - to apologise or 'fuss up' - will often soon follow, and we can each just ask for understanding that these things happen and accept whatever might then transpire - that just might be reprimand and embarrassment but if it is some penalty or whatever then so be it. We know that doing the 'right' thing is better for us in the long run.

And for the rest of us? Well forgiveness is the best thing to do. What PM did does not make me a Phil-hater or indeed change my view of him one iota.

i agree with you
But still think he should have been dq as it looks like double standards when others have been treated harshly but not the big stars.

If he had been DQ he probably would have accepted it.imo.

The rules over this are black and white but it’s how the pga or USGA apply them as in the Dyson case.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

i agree with you
But still think he should have been dq as it looks like double standards when others have been treated harshly but not the big stars.

If he had been DQ he probably would have accepted it.imo.

The rules over this are black and white but it’s how the pga or USGA apply them as in the Dyson case.

Well maybe - he could have DQ'd himself I suppose by simply not signing his card - and maybe that would have been the right thing to do - point made. But when your head's in a muddle over something - and his would have been - it's not always easy to do that 'right' thing.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

For what it's worth I liked Phil before because he plays exciting and aggressive golf. More that that, he smiles. He smiles when he hits a good shot, he smiles at the paying public. He acknowledges the fans. Afterwards he speaks openly to the press, he is not robotic. After a round he is renowned for how long he stays to sign for people.

None of the above has changed after this weekend and I suspect the public will generally feel the same. What he did was daft, it was wrong but he didn't do it to win the tournament. Some hardcore golf fans will bear a grudge but most will forget about it or certainly forgive him for it.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

For what it's worth I liked Phil before because he plays exciting and aggressive golf. More that that, he smiles. He smiles when he hits a good shot, he smiles at the paying public. He acknowledges the fans. Afterwards he speaks openly to the press, he is not robotic. After a round he is renowned for how long he stays to sign for people.

None of the above has changed after this weekend and I suspect the public will generally feel the same. What he did was daft, it was wrong but he didn't do it to win the tournament. Some hardcore golf fans will bear a grudge but most will forget about it or certainly forgive him for it.

I'm generally in the same place as you though I feel his chummy 'man of the people' humility when he does well persona is a little bit of an act. He may well be genuine - but to me his public presentation of it is not that authentic. But I still rather like the guy.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

For what it's worth I liked Phil before because he plays exciting and aggressive golf. More that that, he smiles. He smiles when he hits a good shot, he smiles at the paying public. He acknowledges the fans. Afterwards he speaks openly to the press, he is not robotic. After a round he is renowned for how long he stays to sign for people.

None of the above has changed after this weekend and I suspect the public will generally feel the same. What he did was daft, it was wrong but he didn't do it to win the tournament. Some hardcore golf fans will bear a grudge but most will forget about it or certainly forgive him for it.

I don't think Phil will suffer too much damage in the eyes of the public and at least he's made a more reasoned and apologetic statement. I wonder if his "team" gave him poor advice straight after or if it was straight from the heart in the heat of the moment (I expect the latter)

 

[sjn]

Putting aside any justification, you reference a lesser punishment, implying that there were choices available to the rules officials.

As quoted above in post #3 The DQ penalty under rule 1.2 was simply not available to the officials, although I suspect they would have wished to use it for the reasons outlined in many other comments.

Whether 14-5 specifically contemplates all of the possible situations in which a player can physically make a stroke at a moving ball relative to the other possible options and penalties we don't know but, as has already been pointed out by Jim his action has already cost him a real penalty, so maybe it has.

Don't follow why you say rule 1.2 was not available to officials. The USGA/R&A rules people had already published a decision on the rules of golf which shows they could. The question asked was 'A player uses his club to deliberately stop the ball from rolling down a hill and off the green -what is the ruling ?'.They said 'The payer is in breach of rule 1-2. As he only stopped the ball from going short distance further in this particular case , this was not major breach. Had the player redirected the ball with his club ,the tournament committee would need to consider if this was major breach'.
Anyway ,whatever the rules interpretations, as soon as PM said he deliberately broke a rule,any rule, it should have been a no brainer to send him home

 

[Dellboy]

He hit a moving ball, which is a 2 shot pen and not DQ, He took the two shots, nothing else to say really.