Medal...I refused to sign his card.

[Tommo21]

So I’m playing a Medal comp and I get drawn with another 5 HC player and a 16 HC player. I’ve never played with them before so I don’t know what to expect.

Anyway, off we go and all seems to be normal with the other 5HC player going along well. Then at the 6th hole I notice he replaced his ball with a visible gap, directly in line, between his one pence coin and the ball…….I never gave it a second thought..well.

Got to the 8th and I noticed he marked his ball with the coin right behind the ball, I thought funny. I didn’t make any attempt to see how he replaced it as I would need to be standing over him and it would look out of sorts.

The 10th longish 210 yard par 3 and we all miss the green. I chip up to about three feet and the 5HC chipped up to about 5 feet. I get a good look at the way he marked his ball and it was conventional with the coin right behind the ball. The 16HC guy putted up and I get a close look at the 5HC guy replacing his ball and there was a clear gap, easily the length of the coin itself.

I was going to stop him there and then but I realised that all I seen before added up that he was doing the same action on the previous holes.

Being honest my heart started pumping a little bit faster and I was beginning to doubt myself plus trying to hold my own game together.

The next few holes came and went and I didn’t get the opportunity to fully see what he was doing. I either seen him mark or seen him replace, but not both actions together. Sounds simple, but when you have your own ball and a third player then it’s not easy to stand over someone all the time…….I tried to play as I would play but I did notice he was marking close, replacing with a gap.

I was now beginning to realise this was not just a two shot penalty for replacing the ball in the wrong position, he was doing it all the time, the same pattern.

16th and we both play good shots close to the pin. I get a really good look how he marked the ball and it was tight in behind the ball. I thought if he replaces this with a gap then I’ll have a word with the 16HC guy.

Sure as hell he replaced with a gap, drained his putt for a 2. I knew then everything I seen added up.

Walked off the 17tee and I had a word with the other guy, but within a few seconds I realised he didn’t want to get involved. I asked him to have a look when we got to the green but he didn’t make any effort. I was on my own and I was marking the 5HC players card. Worse still the guy was scoring really well, more on that later.

Coming up the par 4 18th and everything is going through my head on how to approach this. I missed the green but chipped for an tap in par. I made sure I seen how he marked it. As soon as he replaced his ball I said are you happy with that and he said yes. I said you had a clear gap there. He was unsure what to do, but it was then I decided I would not sign his card. I said just putt out and he did.
I explained on the practice green exactly what he was doing and he dropped his head offering no explanation, reason or defence. He did say he has never been accused of cheating before and that got me a little annoyed but I stayed cool, told him I would not sign his card.

What happened next was a surprise, unknown to me he later went in to the clubhouse distraught that I didn’t sign his card. Later the captain called me at home wanting to know the situation, especially why I waited so long. I said I had to be absolutely sure because I knew he was doing it on every hole but couldn’t see him every time, explaining what I just told you guys above.

That was that, his name was not on the result sheet…..the 5HC player would have been top of the scratch , HC and money for a two at 16. He would have been worth a few bob sweep money as well.

I feel 100% cool with this but my opinion…the guy should have DQ himself as soon as he was rumbled.

 

[USER1999]

I've never understood why any one would do this. Is a few mm that important?

He should have accepted your decision, and gone and fessed up, not complained. May be next time he will do it the right way.

 

[Bazz]

Fair play to you.

You waited until you were completely sure instead of bawling him out the first time, 1 time could've been a mistake but on that many occasions is blatant cheating.

Judging from his reaction he knew he didn't have a leg to stand on.

Could've been doing it for years....no wonder he's off 5

 

[Birchy]

The fact he had no explanation spoke volumes. The worse thing about stuff like this is that you might as well not of been playing as this will overshadow your game and it seemingly affected you as you were going round.

 

[chrisd]

What a difficult position to be put in by him. I admire the fact that you double double checked first and the guy was a blatant cheat, you were refereeing for all the rest of the field and did exactly the right thing IMO . He was bound to feign surprise or admit to being a blatant cheat but hopefully everyone he plays with in the future will watch Him like a hawk!

 

[Hendo007]

Well done for bringing it up though and not letting it go. Too many people would do what the 16 h/c would do and not get involved. At least you know he won't be doing it again!!

 

[bozza]

I can't understand why anyone would knowingly replace there ball wrong, you gain no advantage in my eyes if your ball is a inch closer to the hole. I'm not saying it's right but you gain nothing at all from it, you would for example if you took a incorrect drop to gain a better lie but replacing your ball a inch closer to the hole on a green is pointless.

It's never nice having to pull someone up on a ruling especially if they are probably gaining no advantage from it.

 

[North Mimms]

I've never understood why any one would do this. Is a few mm that important?

He should have accepted your decision, and gone and fessed up, not complained. May be next time he will do it the right way.

I agree- the amount he gained was stupidly small- but he was still in the wrong.

Did you explain to anyone before leaving why you hadn't signed his card?

 

[duncan mackie]

I've noticed that people get very sloppy through the winter months, partially the nature of the greens with significant 'damaged' areas, and I also think that preferred lies add to this general 'I can put it where I want that looks good and is close' mentality. This is just an observation.

Personally, in this case, I would have spoken to the individual on the 10th along the lines that he appears to be a little slack on accurately replacing his ball and watched how things developed from there; I agree that it would be inappropriate to have a big discussion about what had happened up to that point then. No problems with your chosen solution; although I didn't understand what took place on the 18th "As soon as he replaced his ball I said are you happy with that and he said yes. I said you had a clear gap there. He was unsure what to do, but it was then I decided I would not sign his card. I said just putt out and he did. I think at this point you should have advisd him that he needed to replace the ball where it had been picked up from before putting ie Xmm futher away from the hole before putting out. I understand your logic but telling him to go ahead and putt from a wrong place rather pre-judges subsequent events.
As you say, difficult situation all round as others (including prefessionals) have found.

 

[DAVEYBOY]

Fair play :thup:

 

[bigslice]

tommo21 practising to be a mod, i think i would have said something when i first saw it. if he did it again then he was in the wrong and he would ahve known you knew, well done cant stand folk who sit back and dont say anything

 

[stevek1969]

Well done Tommo ,personally i would have pulled him up earlier about it and reported him if he's doing that what else is he doing ,poor show on his part for a couple of millimetres .

 

[DCB]

Must be an East Lothian phenomenon, they must get taught it at primary school

 

[Bazz]

Although if you'd said something the first time you saw it, he may have stopped right away and that would've been it.....until the next time he played

 

[joe nustedt]

Well done, I think you handled that in a good way.

 

[upsidedown]

Think you handled it pretty well, those who have played with him before and not called him should hang their heads in shame as it sounds like not the first time he's done this.

 

[pelican55]

I played in a social club and also noticed a 7Hdcp doing exactly the same,placing the coin behind and then replacing about a inch in front. This guy was always in the prizes and been new in this society I did not want to make avilpos scene but mentioned it to other players and they appeared to be totally oblivious to what he was doing or did not know the rules.
How does one approach it within a social club without upsetting anyone,if it was a club competition or club champs and I was marking the card I would have pulled him up quickly, maybe I was wrong not to speak to the organiser of the social club to his rules discretion.

 

[Tommo21]

I've noticed that people get very sloppy through the winter months, partially the nature of the greens with significant 'damaged' areas, and I also think that preferred lies add to this general 'I can put it where I want that looks good and is close' mentality. This is just an observation.

Personally, in this case, I would have spoken to the individual on the 10th along the lines that he appears to be a little slack on accurately replacing his ball and watched how things developed from there; I agree that it would be inappropriate to have a big discussion about what had happened up to that point then. No problems with your chosen solution; although I didn't understand what took place on the 18th "As soon as he replaced his ball I said are you happy with that and he said yes. I said you had a clear gap there. He was unsure what to do, but it was then I decided I would not sign his card. I said just putt out and he did. I think at this point you should have advisd him that he needed to replace the ball where it had been picked up from before putting ie Xmm futher away from the hole before putting out. I understand your logic but telling him to go ahead and putt from a wrong place rather pre-judges subsequent events.
As you say, difficult situation all round as others (including prefessionals) have found.

Fair point but I decided there and then before he putted out that I wouldnt sign his card.

Lots of things go through your mind and it's not easy.

 

[Tommo21]

I played in a social club and also noticed a 7Hdcp doing exactly the same,placing the coin behind and then replacing about a inch in front. This guy was always in the prizes and been new in this society I did not want to make avilpos scene but mentioned it to other players and they appeared to be totally oblivious to what he was doing or did not know the rules.
How does one approach it within a social club without upsetting anyone,if it was a club competition or club champs and I was marking the card I would have pulled him up quickly, maybe I was wrong not to speak to the organiser of the social club to his rules discretion.

It's breaking the rules, not a rule discretion. Its not easy to pull someone up quickly when you are not sure in the first place. I made sure I was sure.

 

[joe nustedt]

Question for you (or anyone else): If on the 18th he had said 'yes, his ball was a little out of place' and moved it to the correct position - would you have then signed his card?