Mandatory Submission of Matchplay/4BB scores for Handicap

[clubchamp98]

Heres a genuine question for those few who think this is a good idea...
Would you concede a 5 foot putt?

If you would then I’ll take you on for money any time but you're only getting genuine gimmees.
If you wouldn't then you've just confirmed that this idea is a load of rats...

In 40 yrs of playing I have never conceded a 5’ putt.
Conceded a few holes where I have had a mare .
But any putt that changes the score of the match my op is putting it in the hole.

 

[wjemather]

Are you really advocating a scoring system where you make up your score?

Firstly, I'm not advocating anything; all I've been doing is explaining the concept and correcting factual inaccuracies in what others have been saying. Second, and on that later point, saying it constitutes "making up your score" is a misrepresentation.

 

[wjemather]

In 40 yrs of playing I have never conceded a 5’ putt.
Conceded a few holes where I have had a mare .
But any putt that changes the score of the match my op is putting it in the hole.

Nothing changes with respect to the match. MLS is only used to determine a score for handicapping once a stroke or hole has already been conceded.

 

[wjemather]

Heres a genuine question for those few who think this is a good idea...
Would you concede a 5 foot putt?

If you would then I’ll take you on for money any time but you're only getting genuine gimmees.
If you wouldn't then you've just confirmed that this idea is a load of rats...

I'd assume no-one would concede anything that isn't almost certain to be holed; but of course "most likely" is a lot less likely than "almost certain" so the analogy is not valid.

 

[clubchamp98]

Nothing changes with respect to the match. MLS is only used to determine a score for handicapping once a stroke or hole has already been conceded.

So it’s acceptable for handicapping that all players do not miss 5’ putts.
When we all know that’s where the pressure is on most ( shortish putts).
The more I think of it the more stupid it seems.

 

[Crow]

To comply with the rules of the WHS you should have entered your score for each hole as "not played" because you didn't actually tee off

Boooo!

 

[IanM]

Firstly, I'm not advocating anything; all I've been doing is explaining the concept and correcting factual inaccuracies in what others have been saying. Second, and on that later point, saying it constitutes "making up your score" is a misrepresentation.

Point 1. How generous of you to take the time to explain to us plebs! Many thanks!

Point 2. How is it a misrepresentation?

In this example a ball wasn't holed. You can't say with any certainty what score would have resulted. Therefore any score entered NEVER HAPPENED. Ipso facto, it's made up.

Are they that desperate to have cards lodged?

 

[wjemather]

Point 1. How generous of you to take the time to explain to us plebs! Many thanks!

Point 2. How is it a misrepresentation?

In this example a ball wasn't holed. You can't say with any certainty what score would have resulted. Therefore any score entered NEVER HAPPENED. Ipso facto, it's made up.

Are they that desperate to have cards lodged?

A vague "most likely" is all the certainty that is offered or required. You stated that the player makes up their score; they don't.
Out of curiosity, what it your view on other acceptable WHS scores that "never happened"; e.g. holes not played recorded as nett pars, or 9-hole scores being scaled up with fictional 17-point second 9?

There are many people who play match play and/or four-ball almost exclusively, and would probably rather not have to play individual stroke play on a regular basis in order to maintain an accurate handicap. I also expect people who keep seeing these players walk off with open prizes would rather see their handicaps recalculated too.

 

[Imurg]

A vague "most likely" is all the certainty that is offered or required. You stated that the player makes up their score; they don't.
Out of curiosity, what it your view on other acceptable WHS scores that "never happened"; e.g. holes not played recorded as nett pars, or 9-hole scores being scaled up with fictional 17-point second 9?

There are many people who play match play and/or four-ball almost exclusively, and would probably rather not have to play individual stroke play on a regular basis in order to maintain an accurate handicap. I also expect people who keep seeing these players walk off with open prizes would rather see their handicaps recalculated too.

They are equally derived from fantasy land..

Ref the Matchplayers who don't want to play much strokeplay to maintain an accurate handicap.....what are they doing at the moment and what did they do before..?

 

[Bratty]

I thought holes not completed were counted as the lowest non-scoring number, i.e. a 6 on a par 4 with no shot?

 

[Imurg]

I thought holes not completed were counted as the lowest non-scoring number, i.e. a 6 on a par 4 with no shot?

It's when you have to come off the course after, say, 14 holes as the course becomes unplayable..you get given a nett bogey on 15 and nett pars on the rest...

 

[Bratty]

It's when you have to come off the course after, say, 14 holes as the course becomes unplayable..you get given a nett bogey on 15 and nett pars on the rest...

Gotcha. Ta.
In which case, my answer to the question "what do I think about other acceptable scores that never happened?" cannot be printed here, for fear of a ban! ?

 

[IanM]

This is clearly an April Fool where someone has messed up the date!

A vague "most likely" is all the certainty that is offered or required. You stated that the player makes up their score; they don't.
Out of curiosity, what it your view on other acceptable WHS scores that "never happened"; e.g. holes not played recorded as nett pars, or 9-hole scores being scaled up with fictional 17-point second 9?

There are many people who play match play and/or four-ball almost exclusively, and would probably rather not have to play individual stroke play on a regular basis in order to maintain an accurate handicap. I also expect people who keep seeing these players walk off with open prizes would rather see their handicaps recalculated too.

A handicap based solely on matchplay scores can't accurate and we know why. Are general play cards including gimmies ok now?

My view is that use of "made up" scores to satisfy a craze to make absolutely everything qualifying is at best daft, and at worse damaging to golf.

You appear to be saying the score is not made up, because it complies with a guideline. I'm saying it is made up because it never happened.

Same goes for all the daft stuff where a score is entered for a hole you never even played.

 

[cliveb]

A vague "most likely" is all the certainty that is offered or required. You stated that the player makes up their score; they don't.

What is the definition of "most likely"? Anything over 50% suffices.
But let's be generous and say that each 5ft putt has a 75% chance of being holed. (Which I venture to suggest is VERY generous for most handicap golfers).

Now let's say that we are going to record 4 "most likely" scores in a round for sub-5ft putts.
We write down 1 extra shot for each of the four holes.
But the probability of holing all 4 of those putts (at 75% chance per putt) is about 32%.
Recording only 4 strokes to represent what you were likely to score is therefore very likely to be an underestimate.
To submit it for handicapping purposes is mathematically indefensible.

 

[Bratty]

This is clearly an April Fool where someone has messed up the date!



A handicap based solely on matchplay scores can't accurate and we know why.

My view is that use of "made up" scores to satisfy a craze to make absolutely everything qualifying is at best daft, and at worse damaging to golf.

You appear to be saying the score is not made up, because it complies with a guideline. I'm saying it is made up because it never happened.

Same goes for all the daft stuff where a score is entered for a hole you never even played.

I'm minded of a line from Dickens:
"If the law supposes that," said Mr. Bumble, squeezing his hat emphatically in both hands, "the law is a ass - a idiot".

 

[IanM]

Excellent idea. I always wanted to be a scratch golfer!

 

[wjemather]

They are equally derived from fantasy land..

Ref the Matchplayers who don't want to play much strokeplay to maintain an accurate handicap.....what are they doing at the moment and what did they do before..?

In GB&I, some played their minimum 3 qualifiers a year to maintain an active/comp handicap and didn't go out of their way to play more. WHS doesn't have this requirement (also terms of competition may), so they may not be submitting any scores at all. Others simply abandoned the idea of having an official handicap and just made one up for their social games; I expect little has changed for them, although we have seen lots of players renew their handicap.

What happened/happens around the world, I cannot say but in many countries, individual stroke play is nowhere near as common as it is here.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Excellent idea. I always wanted to be a scratch golfer!

I find that when I have a few weeks off from playing then the first round back is often a goodie. And weirdly it seems that the longer the break I have from playing, the better that first round back is. Ipso facto if I stop for good I will become a scratch golfer…I just wont know it ??

No..not seriously..

 

[IanM]

We've got a 4 ball, better ball qualifying for handicap tomorrow.

Teeing off at 10pm. I reckon I'll beat my average!

 

[clubchamp98]

We've got a 4 ball, better ball qualifying for handicap tomorrow.

Teeing off at 10pm. I reckon I'll beat my average!

Car park will be full.