Mandatory Submission of Matchplay/4BB scores for Handicap

[D-S]

I note in WHS rule 2.1 a (ii) copied here:-
“Round Played Outside a Player’s Jurisdiction. Subject to other provisions set out within the Rules of Handicapping:
A score from an authorized format of play within the jurisdiction where the round was played is acceptable for handicap purposes and must be submitted, even if the format of play is not authorized in a player’s home jurisdiction.”

I take this to mean that if I play in the US or anywhere that has the same handicapping rules as the US that when I play any round there I must submit it for handicapping this includes singles or 4 ball matchplay or 4BB rounds This means that I must learn the rules for ‘most likely score’ in order for this to work.

Are people doing this or insisting their members do this? How do I know which countries have which rules easily?

 

[Bratty]

I highly unlikely to put a card in on a singles or 4bbb matchplay comp, because:
In singles or pairs, I may attempt hero shots, like driver off the deck, if I'm giving a shot on a hole.
I may pick up if I can't score better than my partner, or my opponent. But if I've lost to a birdie and I pick up a makeable par putt, it's going to be a double or triple bogey for hcap purposes. Which is nonsense.
To be told I must, well, what are they going to do to me?
For our 4bbb league matches, we were told not to submit a card.

 

[sjw]

"Must" ?!

As has been said enough, what's the consequence? We don't have to submit every round here...

 

[D-S]

"Must" ?!

As has been said enough, what's the consequence? We don't have to submit every round here...

Must is the word used in the USA and if we play there, or areas with the same rules, we have to do what they do, hence the wording of the rule. I've no idea if anyone is doing this, hence the original question and, if they are, what consequences they have for non-adherence.

Some have said that this will be the eventual result of WHS and that we are only in stage 1 in the UK.

 

[wjemather]

It is the player's responsibility to submit all their acceptable scores, in accordance with the Rules of Handicapping. Handicap committees (should) have been educating their members to enable them to do this, and will generally only follow-up if something gets brought to their attention.

Consequences depend on circumstances... Ignorance is resolved by education, but steadfast refusal to abide by the rules of handicapping could ultimately lead to withdrawal of handicap.

 

[wjemather]

I highly unlikely to put a card in on a singles or 4bbb matchplay comp, because:
In singles or pairs, I may attempt hero shots, like driver off the deck, if I'm giving a shot on a hole.
I may pick up if I can't score better than my partner, or my opponent. But if I've lost to a birdie and I pick up a makeable par putt, it's going to be a double or triple bogey for hcap purposes. Which is nonsense.

Per the op, it's not a case of counting nett double-bogeys for not holing out "makeable par putts" - Most Likely Score applies, which is very simple: inside 5 ft, add 1 stroke; between 5 ft and 20 yards, add 2 or 3 depending on the ability of the player and difficulty of the stroke faced; beyond 20 yards, add 3 or 4 (as before).

For our 4bbb league matches, we were told not to submit a card.

This is correct - in GB&I, scores from 4BBB and match play are not acceptable. However, when playing abroad, they might be.

 

[Bratty]

Per the op, it's not a case of counting nett double-bogeys for not holing out "makeable par putts" - Most Likely Score applies, which is very simple: inside 5 ft, add 1 stroke; between 5 ft and 20 yards, add 2 or 3 depending on the ability of the player and difficulty of the stroke faced; beyond 20 yards, add 3 or 4 (as before).

Which sounds like a ridiculously subjective way of doing it!
However, thanks for clarifying and the additional info.

 

[cliveb]

Most Likely Score applies, which is very simple: inside 5 ft, add 1 stroke

Madness. This basically assumes nobody ever misses a putt inside 5ft. Even tour pros sometimes miss short putts. If the card is going to be recorded for handicapping, and you're less than 5ft from the hole, you should damn well putt out and write down an actual score. It's not exactly going to take very long, is it?

 

[clubchamp98]

Madness. This basically assumes nobody ever misses a putt inside 5ft. Even tour pros sometimes miss short putts. If the card is going to be recorded for handicapping, and you're less than 5ft from the hole, you should damn well putt out and write down an actual score. It's not exactly going to take very long, is it?

Your also going to need a tape measure, just incase your op thinks it’s longer than 5’.
Just guessing your score ,you couldn’t make it up. Hang on!!!

Sometimes you play shots in MP that you would not play in medal.
It depends what your op does.
I just can’t see how scoring in MP can be counted for handicap .
It’s the reason in the past that the two forms were not allowed to be played simultaneously
Plus penalty shots might be hidden.

If you pick up on a hole you go oob and might be shooting 7 or 8 you just get nett double.
Most likely what does that actually mean.
I normally get a 4 on our 18th but got a 7 on Saturday.
The only way to know your score it to hole out, Matchplay as it is will be dead .

 

[D-S]

If you are going to submit matchplay or better ball cards you need a way of scoring for holes where you don't hole out. '

'Most Likely score' is the way they have devised in the US where every round, with a few exceptions, must be 'posted' (i.e. put in for handicap).

 

[Imurg]

If you are going to submit matchplay or better ball cards you need a way of scoring for holes where you don't hole out. '

'Most Likely score' is the way they have devised in the US where every round, with a few exceptions, must be 'posted' (i.e. put in for handicap).

So that just confirms what most of us have thought for a long time...US handicaps are inventions.....

 

[wjemather]

Madness. This basically assumes nobody ever misses a putt inside 5ft. Even tour pros sometimes miss short putts. If the card is going to be recorded for handicapping, and you're less than 5ft from the hole, you should damn well putt out and write down an actual score. It's not exactly going to take very long, is it?

It doesn't assume (or guess) anything. It's "Most Likely Score, not "Virtually Certain Score".

 

[clubchamp98]

So that just confirms what most of us have thought for a long time...US handicaps are inventions.....

Most Americans I have met ( quite a few) don’t have handicaps.
It’s so expensive there to join a club that most pay and play and are not club members.
I asked all I met “ what are you off”
“ About 12” is the normal answer ,before they stripe one 280yds

 

[clubchamp98]

So that just confirms what most of us have thought for a long time...US handicaps are inventions.....

But we still copied it.

 

[Imurg]

But we still copied it.

Stupid is as Stupid does......

 

[jim8flog]

I note in WHS rule 2.1 a (ii) copied here:-
“Round Played Outside a Player’s Jurisdiction. Subject to other provisions set out within the Rules of Handicapping:

I think this is an important point. Most likely score is not acceptable in the UK.

 

[wjemather]

I think this is an important point. Most likely score is not acceptable in the UK.

CONGU's guidance (G3.3/1) makes it clear that MLS is used by GB&I when submitting scores from match play or four-ball when played in a jurisdiction where such formats are acceptable for handicapping:

"Whilst not in general use in GB&I, Ireland are trialling its use so clubs and players should be aware of this provision should they play overseas or in Ireland..."​

 

[Blue in Munich]

I note in WHS rule 2.1 a (ii) copied here:-
“Round Played Outside a Player’s Jurisdiction. Subject to other provisions set out within the Rules of Handicapping:
A score from an authorized format of play within the jurisdiction where the round was played is acceptable for handicap purposes and must be submitted, even if the format of play is not authorized in a player’s home jurisdiction.”

I take this to mean that if I play in the US or anywhere that has the same handicapping rules as the US that when I play any round there I must submit it for handicapping this includes singles or 4 ball matchplay or 4BB rounds This means that I must learn the rules for ‘most likely score’ in order for this to work.

Are people doing this or insisting their members do this? How do I know which countries have which rules easily?

The lunatics really have taken over the asylum. Just what benefit does this bring to the average club golfer, save buggering up their enjoyment of holiday golf?

 

[Imurg]

It doesn't assume (or guess) anything. It's "Most Likely Score, not "Virtually Certain Score".

Oh come on...no matter how you try and spin it there is an assumption that you're going to 1 putt from 5 feet or less....whether you call it Most Likely, Vaguely possible, or Bloomin' impossible youre still assuming......

 

[clubchamp98]

Oh come on...no matter how you try and spin it there is an assumption that you're going to 1 putt from 5 feet or less....whether you call it Most Likely, Vaguely possible, or Bloomin' impossible youre still assuming......

A lot of people I know would be delighted with that.
All you have to do is get it to within 5’ and pick it up .
No more three putts.
I thought WHS couldn’t get any worse. I was wrong.