Longer Courses rated for Ladies

[YandaB]

Hi, we are considering getting our course rated for the ladies off the yellow tees for those that want to play a longer course. We know that not everyone will play it but there certainly are a good number that can and should be able to do so. Have you any examples of scorecards where there are tees rated for men and ladies with courses that range from 5,600 red to 6,300 yellow that we can learn from? For example, how has the card been laid out, have any pars been changed, does the stroke index remain the same?

St Andrews have a few good examples but not quite the extremes we are looking at (I like the green, blue, black course coding - I can see that it follows a pattern already in place for Skiing and Mountain Biking). Carnoustie is another. Disappointingly, the home of England Golf appears to remain very conservative with Reds only for Ladies and Yellow, White and Blue for the Men. Some of the courses in America are much more inclusive and I have some samples from there too but I'd like some from closer to home.

There should be a happy medium somewhere between following all the reccomendations on hole lengths for par, stroke indexes, card layouts, equality and keeping it all simple enough to stop confusion (not to mention any changes to course furniture).

 

[IanM]

Newport has all its tees rated for women. We've got several very low and plus handicap women who play off the back tees.

I don't know what the fuss is about.

I think Burnham and Berrow have changed all their tee colours to get away from historic attachments to white, yellow and red!

 

[jim8flog]

Courses should all have the tee rated for gender neutral but this really just means the Course ratings will be different.

I assume there will still be a card for ladies and a card for gents simply because the pars for either sex can be different.

Pars should be set as per this chart

https://www.randa.org/en/rules-of-handicapping/2019/rules/appendices/appendix-f

 

[YandaB]

Newport has all its tees rated for women. We've got a several very low and plus handicap women who play off the back tees.

I don't know what the fuss is about.

I think Burnham and Berrow have changed all their tee colours to get away from historic attachments to white, yellow and red!

Thanks Ian, that's great, those are very compatible. The websites for those courses don't have a picture of the actual scorecard which would be useful too, if you have them could you ping me a photo? I wonder if they are separate Mens/Ladies ones, it's quite a lot to get on one card but not impossible I suspect.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Well done, it should be simple task for all golf clubs to rate their courses for all levels of players.

My experience tells me that most clubs will have an even harder job to convince the women than the men.
Olden golfers do not like change, even when it is blindingly obvious.

 

[IanM]

Thanks Ian, that's great, those are very compatible. The websites for those courses don't have a picture of the actual scorecard which would be useful too, if you have them could you ping me a photo? I wonder if they are separate Mens/Ladies ones, it's quite a lot to get on one card but not impossible I suspect.

I'll get one when I'm there on Wednesday. Actually, not sure how we do it, haven't really looked.

 

[IanM]

Well done, it should be simple task for all golf clubs to rate their courses for all levels of players.

My experience tells me that most clubs will have an even harder job to convince the women than the men.
Olden golfers do not like change, even when it is blindingly obvious.

People who say they like change are either, implementing the change, not actually going through significant change, or lying!!

You could be right about women golfers. Team event at my wife's club this weekend. Team of man, woman and junior. My wife refused to play as she didn't want to play with a bloke she didn't know! ?

 

[Crumplezone]

My wife refused to play as she didn't want to play with a bloke she didn't know! ?

I wouldn't want to play golf with a bloke I didn't know either.

 

[chellie]

People who say they like change are either, implementing the change, not actually going through significant change, or lying!!

You could be right about women golfers. Team event at my wife's club this weekend. Team of man, woman and junior. My wife refused to play as she didn't want to play with a bloke she didn't know! ?

I wouldn't want to play golf with a bloke I didn't know either.

I just don't get this at all.

 

[jim8flog]

One other advantage of having one card for men and one for ladies is that the stroke indexes can be set differently.

 

[IanM]

I just don't get this at all.

I don't either, but we're all different.

 

[wjemather]

One other advantage of having one card for men and one for ladies is that the stroke indexes can be set differently.

As with having different pars for men and women, different Stroke Indexes can easily be done on a single card - and generally is. I have scorecards from several courses (e.g. Saunton, Knole Park) that have different pars and SIs for each tee, never mind each gender.

 

[Mel Smooth]

This is not strictly about allowing ladies to play further back, but it also allows gents - who for whatever reason can't hit the ball a great distance, to play further forward.


It's a totally sensible thing to do, and surely something every golf club should be looking at implementing.

Woolley Park in West Yorkshire did it a few weeks ago (James Robinsons course if you watch you tube)

"At Woolley Park we are proud that all our tees are WHS measured for both men and women. Offering red, yellow and white tee options for every player."

 

[IanM]

It's a totally sensible thing to do, and surely something every golf club should be looking at implementing.

Thats why changing the colours of the markers is part of the process!

 

[wjemather]

Thats why changing the colours of the markers is part of the process!

There is certainly no requirement to change the colour of tee markers, but there is a small minority who will forever associate traditional colours with men/women, so changing them can be a useful step which many clubs have chosen to take.

 

[IanM]

there is a small minority who will forever associate traditional colours with men/women, so changing them can be a useful step which many clubs have chosen to take.

Was the point I was making. Hence you remove the association, as they have done at Burnham. (I think it's more than a small minority too!)

 

[Crumplezone]

I just don't get this at all.

I've met a lot of people. I didn't like most of them enough to spend 10 minutes with them, never mind 4 hours.

 

[jim8flog]

As with having different pars for men and women, different Stroke Indexes can easily be done on a single card - and generally is. I have scorecards from several courses (e.g. Saunton, Knole Park) that have different pars and SIs for each tee, never mind each gender.

Yes that is fine when there is just one set of tees/pars for ladies (as is on ours)

but we are now talking maybe 3-4 sets of tees for each gender the card is starting to get mahoosive.

I remember once playing a course with 5 tees and it was really easy to read the wrong yardage (which I did) On one par 3 there was 50 -80 yard walk from where the clubs were left to the tee with the wrong 2 clubs in my hands.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

People who say they like change are either, implementing the change, not actually going through significant change, or lying!!

You could be right about women golfers. Team event at my wife's club this weekend. Team of man, woman and junior. My wife refused to play as she didn't want to play with a bloke she didn't know! ?

I do not think anyone says they like change but sometimes it is inevitable.
We would still be playing with different sized golf balls than the Americans without a change.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I've met a lot of people. I didn't like most of them enough to spend 10 minutes with them, never mind 4 hours.

Blimey…you must live and work in rather unusual circumstances. I also have met a lot of people and can safely say that I can’t think of a single person I wouldn’t spend 10minutes with. Each to his own - though that might be on his own ?