Lift, Clean And Place

[Old Colner]

CONGU 19 July
With no restrictions on bunker rakes on the course, a local rule to allow preferred lies in bunkers is not permitted (apart from situations already covered under the Rules of Golf and the appropriate Model Local Rules utilised) and generally making all bunkers GUR is no longer permitted

No qualifying rounds at ours, the coarse is much shorter as Winter Rules also includes, winter tees, temporary greens and mats from the fairways, suspect this is why its allowed.

 

[rosecott]

What’s the thoughts on using LCP to your advantage and placing the ball on a worm cast to tee it up a bit?

Surely the model local rule specifies that the ball must be replaced on the original spot.

 

[Foxholer]

To me, golf is meant to be 'an enjoyable, if challenging, experience'. When Winter conditions mean that the challenge dominates the enjoyment, then something needs to change - and lc&p is, imo, a thoroughly reasonable way to improve the experience/enjoyment of a Winter round of golf. I certainly wouldn't want that to be the case all year round though, as, to me, the occasional dodgy lie/mudball is part of the 'challenge' of golf.

 

[timd77]

Surely the model local rule specifies that the ball must be replaced on the original spot.

Within 6 inches, pretty sure that’s standard? Certainly has been at other courses I’ve played.

 

[jim8flog]

Surely the model local rule specifies that the ball must be replaced on the original spot.

That would be lift clean and replace not lift clean and place.

 

[rosecott]

That would be lift clean and replace not lift clean and place.

Perhaps it's me, but, I can only find Model LR E-2 which is concerned with lift, clean and replace. Where do I find the Model LR for lift, clean and place?

 

[Golfnut1957]

Although our course has benefitted from the dry autumn we have gone on to mats early, so lift, clean and place isn't an issue.

In years gone by there was an option for dropping in the rough but this year if you are on the fairway then mats are mandatory. I don't mind this as I bought a quality one, the spin I get from my wedges is awesome. My mates all hate the mats but then again the cheapskates are all using the bits of cut off shag pile astro turf provided by the club.

As others have said, do what is necessary during the winter to make the game as enjoyable as possible and to protect the course. During the season play it as we already do, how far do you want to go to make the game easier?

 

[jim8flog]

Perhaps it's me, but, I can only find Model LR E-2 which is concerned with lift, clean and replace. Where do I find the Model LR for lift, clean and place?

next one down
Rule E-3 Preferred Lies

 

[HeftyHacker]

Although our course has benefitted from the dry autumn we have gone on to mats early, so lift, clean and place isn't an issue.

In years gone by there was an option for dropping in the rough but this year if you are on the fairway then mats are mandatory. I don't mind this as I bought a quality one, the spin I get from my wedges is awesome. My mates all hate the mats but then again the cheapskates are all using the bits of cut off shag pile astro turf provided by the club.

Agreed, I bought a spurk mat last year and i really enjoy playing with it. Its relatively low profile, decent "turf" and fixes in place so it doesn't move on impact. Plus, as you say, the spin you get from them has made approach shots great fun.

Compare that to watching people curse their way around whilst using a clumsy bit of astro turf or something that looks like an inverted yard brush and I think its the best 20 quid I've spent on winter golf!

 

[Crazyface]

Although our course has benefitted from the dry autumn we have gone on to mats early, so lift, clean and place isn't an issue.

In years gone by there was an option for dropping in the rough but this year if you are on the fairway then mats are mandatory. I don't mind this as I bought a quality one, the spin I get from my wedges is awesome. My mates all hate the mats but then again the cheapskates are all using the bits of cut off shag pile astro turf provided by the club.

As others have said, do what is necessary during the winter to make the game as enjoyable as possible and to protect the course. During the season play it as we already do, how far do you want to go to make the game easier?

Well the golf equipment manufacturers are doing their best, and that it the selling point of their goods. I just thought that some sports make sure everything is as perfect as possible before shots are taken and this would be golfs way of doing things. I would be for it personally. I can also see the arguments against. Just thought it would make a good discussion. And I also now realise to would actually remove the divot arguments.

 

[Golfnut1957]

Well the golf equipment manufacturers are doing their best, and that it the selling point of their goods. I just thought that some sports make sure everything is as perfect as possible before shots are taken and this would be golfs way of doing things. I would be for it personally. I can also see the arguments against. Just thought it would make a good discussion. And I also now realise to would actually remove the divot arguments.

It does

And if we really want to stir up a hornets nest we could debate whether the manufactures can actually go any further in making the game easier or are they just selling us pipe dreams.

 

[2blue]

Agreed, I bought a spurk mat last year and i really enjoy playing with it. Its relatively low profile, decent "turf" and fixes in place so it doesn't move on impact. Plus, as you say, the spin you get from them has made approach shots great fun.

Compare that to watching people curse their way around whilst using a clumsy bit of astro turf or something that looks like an inverted yard brush and I think its the best 20 quid I've spent on winter golf!

After using many varieties this is, without doubt, the Rolls Royce of mats. Still punished for 'heavy-hits' but don't have a major cleaning job of the club nor hunt for the divot remnants. It's amazing that you still get the comments of "That means you get a good lie all the time!"......... REPLY.... "Yeah, great isn't it & you're taking care of the course, why wouldn't you want to do that?"

 

[PJ87]

I swear someone says this every winter!

Personally as said above, I don't clean and place on every shot. I do when there's mud on the ball obviously. Other than that, I do it every time I'm hitting a fairway wood, so you can make sure it's sitting nicely. But I see that as a trade-off with the fact it's winter, the ball doesn't go as far, so you're forced to hit fairway woods more often. If I was doing that all year round, I don't know, it would feel a bit like cheating at first. It would get around the divots issue as well of course.

I don't think I feel strongly either way. It will probably never happen anyway, if I did though I'd be fine with it. At my old course there was one summer where it was pick and place all year round on four of the fairways - but it was after that heatwave a few years back when these particularly fairways were in atrocious condition. The pick and place was so you could actually find a bit of grass to put it on.

I played today I think I moved the ball twice the entire round

Both times I was in a little cut from where they put the drainage in the fairway so just moved it 1 inch to the side and didn't even clean

I'll only really bother if it's covered in dirt or the ground is awful

 

[rosecott]

next one down
Rule E-3 Preferred Lies

I do know about Preferred Lies and, at our place, that is what it is called - sometimes Winter Rules but no-one calls it LCP (being sand-based we do not use E-2). To me, LCP is too close to LCR with a likelihood of players "mixing up" the two rules.

 

[jim8flog]

I do know about Preferred Lies and, at our place, that is what it is called - sometimes Winter Rules but no-one calls it LCP (being sand-based we do not use E-2). To me, LCP is too close to LCR with a likelihood of players "mixing up" the two rules.

I do not know of any course that has had lift clean and replace (E-2). I have known for many years it is an option but our committee has always thought it would be likely to be 'abused'. E-3 is the main option used by most courses as part of winter rules but E-2 can be used anywhere on the course when course conditions suggest it use but it must be limited to well defined areas is my understanding.

 

[rulefan]

My course regularly floods to 6' depth most late winters. We use LC&R until the mud residue has cleared.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Seems from the replies I am in the minority in lifting. cleaning and placing every time I hit the fairway. In my (simple) mind, if you can get an advantage by having a clean ball and putting on the best lie within the limits (six inches) then why wouldn't you?

 

[Orikoru]

Seems from the replies I am in the minority in lifting. cleaning and placing every time I hit the fairway. In my (simple) mind, if you can get an advantage by having a clean ball and putting on the best lie within the limits (six inches) then why wouldn't you?

Literally because I can't be bothered. If there's no mud on the ball and the lie looks fine I'm happy to save myself ten seconds and just hit it. ?

 

[louise_a]

We have gone onto mats at my place and I feel it makes the game a lot easier, especially when coupled with soft greens so that the ball tends not to bounce much, I scored 27 points in our 12 hole comp today.

That said I am more than happy to play the ball as it lies during the summer and don't see any need to adopt LC&P all year round

 

[Golfnut1957]

We have gone onto mats at my place and I feel it makes the game a lot easier, especially when coupled with soft greens so that the ball tends not to bounce much, I scored 27 points in our 12 hole comp today.

That said I am more than happy to play the ball as it lies during the summer and don't see any need to adopt LC&P all year round

Aye, as I posted earlier we went to mats a couple of weeks ago. I don't mind as I have a Spurk which makes it feel just like summer golf.

The difference it makes to the course is well worth any inconvenience. We have a par 5 that is way more risk than reward so nearly nobody goes for it in two, instead, everybody lays up in the same area. Before mats were introduces spring would see this area looking as if it had been ravaged by excavators, post mats, it is now in relevantly excellent condition which of course means less work for mother nature recovering from winter.