LET playing 30 games for total of £31m

[Jigger]

I get the counter argument of them having to bring in the money but given a couple of big events, there must be comps in there that barely cover expenses!

The DP world tour has a huge pot by comparison and yet that ain’t a great draw for spectators and spectators drive the sponsorships. Then when you look at the PGA, two of their big events would eclipse this!

I’ve long supported the idea of mixed event tournaments and we need a lot more of them. Women’s golf is a decent standard and more relatable in terms of distances. Halving the men’s fields and cutting out the journeymen to easily allow this and works very well for tennis.

I think the big thing preventing this is that the PGA is a member driven organisation to a certain extent so they’d be asking half its members to sacrifice themselves. The only way around this would be to merger with the women’s PGA and there are probably ego’s at the top of the LPGA getting in the way of that.

LIV a also missed a trick in not doing this in my opinion but that possibly screams more about their cultural issues with women yet again.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I get the counter argument of them having to bring in the money but given a couple of big events, there must be comps in there that barely cover expenses!

The DP world tour has a huge pot by comparison and yet that ain’t a great draw for spectators and spectators drive the sponsorships. Then when you look at the PGA, two of their big events would eclipse this!

I’ve long supported the idea of mixed event tournaments and we need a lot more of them. Women’s golf is a decent standard and more relatable in terms of distances. Halving the men’s fields and cutting out the journeymen to easily allow this and works very well for tennis.

I think the big thing preventing this is that the PGA is a member driven organisation to a certain extent so they’d be asking half its members to sacrifice themselves. The only way around this would be to merger with the women’s PGA and there are probably ego’s at the top of the LPGA getting in the way of that.

LIV a also missed a trick in not doing this in my opinion but that possibly screams more about their cultural issues with women yet again.

So to help boost the women’s game which needs financially help you want to use the man’s game which brings in more money but get rid of half the men ?

So sponsers that pay money for the men’s events knowing that it’s broadcast every single week would no longer get the full field and instead golfers that many rightly or wrongly don’t tune into watch ?

Sorry but if a sport wants to survive then it’s got to sustain itself - sports can’t rely on other area to survive , that will only have a detrimental affect

LIV were never going to include the Women - because it doesn’t have the worldwide appeal that the men’s game does


PIF are already financing a lot of ladies name with Aramco Series

Also the tennis comparison is hard to use because the logistics to play both next to each other is far easier - to do it in golf means players are missing out

The LET has struggled for years because it doesn’t have the appeal to bring in the sponsers - it’s got to find a way to do it

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I can't disagree with anything LP has put. Sports, particularly once mature, have to stand on their two feet. They can't keep leaning on others for help, looking for other brands to weaken themselves to help them.

 

[chrisd]

Great idea Jigger!

Let's see if the netball league chuck out half the ladies to bring in men to make it more appealing

 

[Imurg]

I think there's room for a couple of mixed events but, given the backlash from Linn Grant's win earlier in the year when many complained that she won by not playing the same course as the men, I cant see it happening more than a couple of times.
The LET needs someone to take a punt and throw some money at it.
It will be hard for the LET to generate enough interest on it's own without extensive investment. Sad but true.
If someone has the balls to chuck funds at it then there's a chance it could start to take off like women's football is right now.
Until then..........

 

[ColchesterFC]

I think there's room for a couple of mixed events but, given the backlash from Linn Grant's win earlier in the year when many complained that she won by not playing the same course as the men, I cant see it happening more than a couple of times.
The LET needs someone to take a punt and throw some money at it.
It will be hard for the LET to generate enough interest on it's own without extensive investment. Sad but true.
If someone has the balls to chuck funds at it then there's a chance it could start to take off like women's football is right now.
Until then..........

To my mind for a mixed event to work it has to be a team event, either 4 ball better ball or foursomes, with mixed pairs competing. A straight shootout over the same course wouldn't work with the difference in distances that men and women drive the ball. And if they're using forward tees for the women then there will be the comments about not being a fair comparison with a shorter course. Foursomes would be interesting to see the women hitting much shorter irons into greens than they're used to after their male partner has hit the drive 320 yards and the reverse seeing the men hitting much longer irons when the female partner has hit the drive 260 yards. But as you say it would only really be a couple of times each year and would initially be little more than exhibition golf.

 

[Hobbit]

The R&A invest in growing the sport across all categories. Why doesn’t the ET recognise the need to grow both tours. The sponsors have products that, in the main, are bought by both genders. Both tours are platforms in their own right for the sponsors. Who isn’t chasing the right sponsors for the LET, and why doesn’t the ET recognise they’re guilty of missing an opportunity? Is the R&A using its influence with both tours? Surely best practice lessons are there from the LPGA?

 

[Tongo]

I ended up watching some of the LET this year as Sky televised some events via You Tube. I have to say, it was very good viewing and interesting. The LET seems even more enthrall to the LPGA than the ET does to the PGA though and feels very much like a feeder tour. Nevertheless, the Irish Open was excellent, particularly with Leona Maguire in contention which created a great atmosphere whilst kudos for the organisers for getting the Korda sisters to play in the Aramco tournament in Sotogrande. There certainly seems a lighter atmosphere around the tour with players personalities coming to the fore as opposed to the po-faced nature of the men's tours.

 

[IanM]

It's both sides of the equation!

They need to work harder to get sponsorship. The men's tours should also do more to help.

Go a watch an event. You'll be surprised. Take your kids too!

There's plenty of scope for mixed events of various sorts... is there the will to do it?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I ended up watching some of the LET this year as Sky televised some events via You Tube. I have to say, it was very good viewing and interesting. The LET seems even more enthrall to the LPGA than the ET does to the PGA though and feels very much like a feeder tour. Nevertheless, the Irish Open was excellent, particularly with Leona Maguire in contention which created a great atmosphere whilst kudos for the organisers for getting the Korda sisters to play in the Aramco tournament in Sotogrande. There certainly seems a lighter atmosphere around the tour with players personalities coming to the fore as opposed to the po-faced nature of the men's tours.

What attracted the Korda sisters and indeed any LPGA Player to the Aramco ? Money - the bigger the prize fund the bigger the golfer but even then the winners share is around £40-50k

The golf standard is good , it’s even slower to watch than the men’s unfortunately though and whilst the technical skill is good - there just never seems to be more excitement

It's both sides of the equation!

They need to work harder to get sponsorship. The men's tours should also do more to help.

Go a watch an event. You'll be surprised. Take your kids too!

There's plenty of scope for mixed events of various sorts... is there the will to do it?

Its very tough to fit in more events into an already full calendar

There is lots of money within the sport but the ladies game just struggles to attract the internet and sponsers

 

[moogie]

As LP states

All true

May be hard for some to accept

But it's all true

 

[Jigger]

I can’t disagree with most things said so far and it always generates good counter arguments for both sides. It is always interesting.

I was mainly surprised at how low their purses are in todays current platforms.

Certainly in the uk the women’s tv rights are packaged with the men’s. I’m sure this has positives but given the garbage that is put on sky golf between men’s tournaments, I’d much rather the women’s game get much more air time to build their brand. I’d imagine it wouldn’t be too different in the states albeit I really don’t know.

When I mention halving the men’s field to build in the women’s game you’ll see I mentioned it would be hugely difficult but from a spectator perspective would you rather see all the journeymen presently propping up the back end of the fields and getting no air time or the top ends of both the men and women's games?

Tennis tournaments is a good analogy as they’d easily extend the fields in the men’s game to keep the slow or exposure if the women’s tournament weren’t built in.

The netball response baffles me as surely if you have such skills as a man, you’d join the super rich NBA instead.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I can’t disagree with most things said so far and it always generates good counter arguments for both sides. It is always interesting.

I was mainly surprised at how low their purses are in todays current platforms.

Certainly in the uk the women’s tv rights are packaged with the men’s. I’m sure this has positives but given the garbage that is put on sky golf between men’s tournaments, I’d much rather the women’s game get much more air time to build their brand. I’d imagine it wouldn’t be too different in the states albeit I really don’t know.

When I mention halving the men’s field to build in the women’s game you’ll see I mentioned it would be hugely difficult but from a spectator perspective would you rather see all the journeymen presently propping up the back end of the fields and getting no air time or the top ends of both the men and women's games?

Tennis tournaments is a good analogy as they’d easily extend the fields in the men’s game to keep the slow or exposure if the women’s tournament weren’t built in.

The netball response baffles me as surely if you have such skills as a man, you’d join the super rich NBA instead.

Tennis tournaments are easy to have mixed

Wimbledon for example have over a dozen courts all playing at once , it also lasts 2 weeks , each game can take from one hour to 3 generally - no one misses out, if anything more can play when it comes to the slams - but outside the slams the Ladies have their own tournaments and the men their own

When it comes to a golf tournament it’s just one course across 4 days and your limited to around 120 players - if you want to add in
The ladies then some players are going to miss out

And which players do you believe are the journeymen ? bland was called that until he crossed the line , also players like Fox as well - those journeymen earned their right to play in those tournaments

 

[Jigger]

Tennis tournaments are easy to have mixed

Wimbledon for example have over a dozen courts all playing at once , it also lasts 2 weeks , each game can take from one hour to 3 generally - no one misses out, if anything more can play when it comes to the slams - but outside the slams the Ladies have their own tournaments and the men their own

When it comes to a golf tournament it’s just one course across 4 days and your limited to around 120 players - if you want to add in
The ladies then some players are going to miss out

And which players do you believe are the journeymen ? bland was called that until he crossed the line , also players like Fox as well - those journeymen earned their right to play in those tournaments

Bland is the perfect example of a journeyman given how long he’s taken to win and presently only 90th in the world. It is a cutthroat concept but it’s who you give the opportunity to. Mediocre (at their level) blokes or top end women.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Bland is the perfect example of a journeyman given how long he’s taken to win and presently only 90th in the world. It is a cutthroat concept but it’s who you give the opportunity to. Mediocre (at their level) blokes or top end women.

Is that the same Richard Bland that went onto to win the British Masters ?

And he is 90 in the World because he moved to LIV - he broke into the top 50 earlier in the year -so you want to remove those players to give Lady Golfers more money ? Money they haven’t earned

The opportunity is given to those that earn it

How about then the opportunity is given to those top ladies to earn their place via qualifying ? The same as what those journeymen have to go through to get onto the tour

Someone in the top 200 golfers in Europe is far from “mediocre” and will still play a level of golf that is higher than the top lady golfer.

Those top Lady golfers have their tours that they can qualify for - the top lady golfers can earn £2m a year from prize money.

So why do they need to play in ET events with the men

 

[evemccc]

Tennis tournaments are easy to have mixed

Wimbledon for example have over a dozen courts all playing at once , it also lasts 2 weeks , each game can take from one hour to 3 generally - no one misses out, if anything more can play when it comes to the slams - but outside the slams the Ladies have their own tournaments and the men their own

When it comes to a golf tournament it’s just one course across 4 days and your limited to around 120 players - if you want to add in
The ladies then some players are going to miss out

And which players do you believe are the journeymen ? bland was called that until he crossed the line , also players like Fox as well - those journeymen earned their right to play in those tournaments

Confused by the Wimbledon comparison…there may be 16 or so courts but there are 18 holes on a golf course and shotgun starts happen in the US Open and LIV, and as far as I see, the world hasn’t ended.

Why are you limited to 120 players, if you have shotgun starts and do 36 in a day easily if needed and if it were a mixed gender Foursomes comp

Wimbledon and tennis majors don’t have two weeks to get 120 people to play - they have about 2 days to get all the first round matches completed. There are about 6 or 7 rounds in Grand Slam tennis comps that the finalists have to play

Innovation can occur most importantly by there being a willingness to — A shotgun start, and if needed, 36 holes in a day, addresses some of the problems you’ve cited

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Confused by the Wimbledon comparison…there may be 16 or so courts but there are 18 holes on a golf course and shotgun starts happen in the US Open and LIV, and as far as I see, the world hasn’t ended.

Sorry but what does shotgun starts have to do with anything ?

Why are you limited to 120 players, if you have shotgun starts and do 36 in a day easily if needed and if it were a mixed gender Foursomes comp

Shotgun starts have 72 players at one time on the course

you think there is the scope to have two lots of shotgun starts ?! Average round on the tour takes over 5 hours - add in any delays ?! - so do an extra 20 people you have the potential to cause all sorts of issues

Wimbledon and tennis majors don’t have two weeks to get 120 people to play - they have about 2 days to get all the first round matches completed. There are about 6 or 7 rounds in Grand Slam tennis comps that the finalists have to play

A tennis slam takes two weeks to complete - it’s not 4 days - who said anything about 120 players taking 2 weeks ?

Overall the Slams have around 250 plus players at them

Someone tried to use the comparison that golf could work the same way when they are logistically different in every way

Innovation can occur most importantly by there being a willingness to — A shotgun start, and if needed, 36 holes in a day, addresses some of the problems you’ve cited

What exactly are you “innovating” for ?

Players don’t play 36 holes in one day unless it’s matchplay and a golf course is designed to play from 1-18 , just because the other two use shotgun starts doesn’t make it a success.

Step away from the LIV bubble

 

[evemccc]

Sorry but what does shotgun starts have to do with anything ?


Shotgun starts have 72 players at one time on the course

you think there is the scope to have two lots of shotgun starts ?! Average round on the tour takes over 5 hours - add in any delays ?! - so do an extra 20 people you have the potential to cause all sorts of issues



A tennis slam takes two weeks to complete - it’s not 4 days - who said anything about 120 players taking 2 weeks ?

Overall the Slams have around 250 plus players at them

Someone tried to use the comparison that golf could work the same way when they are logistically different in every way



What exactly are you “innovating” for ?

Players don’t play 36 holes in one day unless it’s matchplay and a golf course is designed to play from 1-18 , just because the other two use shotgun starts doesn’t make it a success.

Step away from the LIV bubble

In case you haven’t noticed - I don’t really care about tour golf, be it PGAT or LIV. So I’m certainly not ‘in the LIV bubble’

I thought this discussion was about incorporating women’s golf or a mixed event into majors or big events…in order to increase the exposure of women’s golf, to increase the likelihood of sponsors through greater exposure that will come with a new event featuring men — that is the ‘innovating’ mentioned - is this not what the above discussion has been about?

For goodness sake it’s ALL incredibly hypothetical — we’re not actually planning holding an event!
It’s all just 19th hole (forum) talk….but YES - actually one could easily have two lots of shotgun starts in a day in a new event - you realise the US OPEN has two-tee starts and you realise the Open has tee-times starting at 06:00? Could easily fit two rounds in with shotgun start at 07:00 and then a shotgun start at 15:00 in the height of summer. No problem whatsoever

If the PGA Tour average is 5 hours for a round - you don’t think there isn’t the scope for there to be penalties for be applied for slow play? There is a penalty for slow over-rate in cricket, there is in Chess a time limit on moves and you can lose by slow play - you don’t think there isn’t in amateur golf opens penalties that get applied (PP once had one) and you don’t think this couldn’t be applied (with much stricter penalties) for professional golf with the aim of having two rounds in a day?

Just because something hasn’t ever happened before it doesn’t mean it couldn’t happen - as I said, it’s all about being open-minded and having the Will to want to achieve something, in this case having a mixed-field event

 

[Deleted member 15344]

In case you haven’t noticed - I don’t really care about tour golf, be it PGAT or LIV. So I’m certainly not ‘in the LIV bubble’

I thought this discussion was about incorporating women’s golf or a mixed event into majors or big events…in order to increase the exposure or women’s golf, increase the likelihood of sponsors through greater exposure — that is the ‘innovating’ — is this not what the above discussion has been about?

No the discussion wasn’t about incorporating women into majors or big events ?‍

The OP was talking about the regular tour removing journeymen players from the regular tour events and giving those spots to the leading lady players so that they can get more prize money

?

For goodness sake it’s ALL conjecture and ALL incredibly hypothetical — we’re not actually planning holding an event!
It’s all just 19th hole (forum) talk….but YES - actually one could easily have two lots of shotgun starts in a day in a new event - you realise the US OPEN has two-tee starts and you realise the Open has tee-times starting at 06:00? Could easily fit two rounds in with shotgun start at 07:00 and then a shotgun start at 15:00 in the height of summer. No problem whatsoever

The Open starts at 06:30 and the last tee time is 16:16 because it’s 3 balls and they have 156 players in the event

Why on earth would they want to change to a shotgun start and twice ?‍ - what exactly does it achieve

The US Open also has 156 players for the first two round but less light hence why it’s a two tee start

If the PGA Tour average is 5 hours for a round - you don’t think there is the scope for there to be penalties for be applied. There is a penalty for over-rate in cricket, there is in Chess a time limit - you don’t think there isn’t in amateur golf opens and you don’t think this couldn’t be applied (with stricter penalties) for professional golf with the aim of having two rounds in a day?

Amatuer golf doesn’t have over 156 players competing for the biggest trophies in golf , a professional round in a major will take 5 hours minimum - that’s players still playing within their shot time limits - but why do they need to play two rounds in one day - what exactly is it achieving ?

Just because something hasn’t ever happened before it doesn’t mean it couldn’t happen - as I said, it’s all about being open-minded and having the Will to want to achieve something, in this case having a mixed-field event

Why should events change to allow a certain section of the sport to get more money that they can’t attract themselves ?

What is it that you are looking to achieve ?

There have been mixed events already - how did they work out

If the ladies game needs more money - go and find it don’t piggy back onto another area looking for handouts

There is no need or any major desire for mixed golf.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Just shooting from the hip here - why not have every 4th group female golfers in a standard format event. With a 50% cut - like the fellas. So around 39 ladies in the starting field - with around ten going through to the Saturday and Sunday - where they compete alongside the blokes. It really wouldn't be too hard to give them tee positions that are representative of their ave distance. I'm not talking about The Open, but I think it would be a welcome addition at some of the less prestigious events.
If you can find a way to incorporate mixed genders into any proffesional sport then it has to be applauded, and golf is 90% of the way there already.