Junior Golf

[Grant85]

What are peoples thoughts on junior golf. My two boys recently won a competition at their away club at which they are full members and have allegedly got full playing rights and able to enter all competitions. After their win they were told they could not win a non junior club competition unless the card was marked by a senior club member. They regularly play open junior competitions and mark and submit cards unsupervised. For the record they are aged 16 off Handicap17 and 14 off Handicap22. Both junior team players for their home club. This isn't a "sour grapes post" but genuinely interested in peoples opinions / thoughts.

You're either a full member, or you aren't.

Obviously clubs are worried that a youngster will quite happily sign a dodgy card for his mate to win. But at the age of 18, they suddenly become trustworthy?

If someone is going to cheat and they have an accomplice, it is almost impossible for clubs to stop this, regardless of the players ages.

 

[jim8flog]

Agree, but I’d also ask why clubs have/need such rules?

Sometimes it is not about how good a player you are but how well you know the rules and maybe having someone with you to question who may know the rules is considered better.

I appreciate sadly all to often these days there are just as many adults that do not read or know the rules as well.

Funnily enough our committee had a long discussion this week about having the rule and everybody on the committee and the club manager decided to keep it. We discussed bringing new age rules for juniors but decided to have just one.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

You're either a full member, or you aren't.

Obviously clubs are worried that a youngster will quite happily sign a dodgy card for his mate to win. But at the age of 18, they suddenly become trustworthy?

If someone is going to cheat and they have an accomplice, it is almost impossible for clubs to stop this, regardless of the players ages.

Re the bit in bold:
Or it maybe because this rule has been in place for over 30+ years and no one has ever bothered reviewing it.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Sometimes it is not about how good a player you are but how well you know the rules and maybe having someone with you to question who may know the rules is considered better.

I appreciate sadly all to often these days there are just as many adults that do not read or know the rules as well.

Funnily enough our committee had a long discussion this week about having the rule and everybody on the committee and the club manager decided to keep it. We discussed bringing new age rules for juniors but decided to have just one.

Again, I understand what you are saying, but is there any restrictions at all on over 18’s marking cards?

We’ve read loads of examples on here were scorecards are messed up, but I’m yet to see a person’s age listed.

 

[Deleted member 3432]

Sometimes it is not about how good a player you are but how well you know the rules and maybe having someone with you to question who may know the rules is considered better.

I appreciate sadly all to often these days there are just as many adults that do not read or know the rules as well.

Funnily enough our committee had a long discussion this week about having the rule and everybody on the committee and the club manager decided to keep it. We discussed bringing new age rules for juniors but decided to have just one.

Let me guess that the average age of the committee members is nearer 60 than 20?

 

[fundy]

Sometimes it is not about how good a player you are but how well you know the rules and maybe having someone with you to question who may know the rules is considered better.

I appreciate sadly all to often these days there are just as many adults that do not read or know the rules as well.

Funnily enough our committee had a long discussion this week about having the rule and everybody on the committee and the club manager decided to keep it. We discussed bringing new age rules for juniors but decided to have just one.

so you agree its a problem with both adults and juniors yet kept the rule just for juniors? why?

 

[Deleted member 3432]

Again, I understand what you are saying, but is there any restrictions at all on over 18’s marking cards?

We’ve read loads of examples on here were scorecards are messed up, but I’m yet to see a person’s age listed.

English Amateur and Brabazon Trophy were won by juniors last year.......

England Golf obviously have no issue with Juniors competing in 'mens' golf tournaments

 

[jim8flog]

so you agree its a problem with both adults and juniors yet kept the rule just for juniors? why?

Are you suggesting we have a rule that adults must have a least one junior playing with them?

 

[Deleted member 16999]

English Amateur and Brabazon Trophy were won by juniors last year.......

England Golf obviously have no issue with Juniors competing in 'mens' golf tournaments

They probably got allocated an adult to mark their cards.

 

[Grant85]

Re the bit in bold:
Or it maybe because this rule has been in place for over 30+ years and no one has ever bothered reviewing it.

Might be, but I'd guess this kind of thing crops up most summers and is something that is a known issue and youngsters have to find an adult to mark their card.

Perhaps there's simply more an element of supervision, rather than assuming they will cheat, but clubs will review guest policies, dress code, booking systems, medal booking etc. multiple times a year as people e-mail in about their problems or views, so I'm sure they have capacity to review something as simple as this rather than just leave a 30 year old system in place.

 

[jim8flog]

Let me guess that the average age of the committee members is nearer 60 than 20?

What an ageist comment!!

Do you think the committee does not have the mental ability to discuss the issues?

 

[fundy]

Are you suggesting we have a rule that adults must have a least one junior playing with them?

its as clever a rule as the one you have

 

[rulefan]

English Amateur and Brabazon Trophy were won by juniors last year.......

England Golf obviously have no issue with Juniors competing in 'mens' golf tournaments

We have just run our U14 & U16 county championships. We had no issues with dodgy scoring but 'men' were not allowed to enter because there may have been some dodgy scorers amongst them.

 

[Grant85]

If clubs are going to get fussy about who is marking a card, then in my view, they should ensure all members know how to mark a card.

I think if you were to look into how a lot of scores were recorded you'd find a surprisingly high number of people don't follow the rules properly and clubs actually do very little to educate players. Juniors probably get more tuition on this if they go through coaching.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Might be, but I'd guess this kind of thing crops up most summers and is something that is a known issue and youngsters have to find an adult to mark their card.

Perhaps there's simply more an element of supervision, rather than assuming they will cheat, but clubs will review guest policies, dress code, booking systems, medal booking etc. multiple times a year as people e-mail in about their problems or views, so I'm sure they have capacity to review something as simple as this rather than just leave a 30 year old system in place.

No it’s not, it’s not the rule at every Club, some Clubs allow them to play in “Senior Comps” off 18, some off 9, all will require supervision for Safeguarding purposes, not for scorecard purposes.

 

[Deleted member 3432]

What an ageist comment!!

Do you think the committee does not have the mental ability to discuss the issues?

You were implying juniors don't know the rules, if thats not ageist......

I don't know the mental capacity of your committee but I have played golf long enough to know that juniors are treated very badly in many golf clubs.

I have long found it strange that adult golfers are happy the handicap system allows them to compete on an equal footing with better players but as soon as children start beating them they are moaning its unfair.

 

[rulefan]

Our policy is that if they have a CONGU handicap, they can play in any competition that is not restricted to Senior Section or Rabbits Section Members. There are no special handicap restrictions - nor should there be.

 

[wrightways]

The question I would ask is have you read your club's rules for juniors?

It is very clearly stated in ours.

I have not checked but I am sure a copy of the appropriate section of ours is also posted in the junior room. (must check tomorrow).

Sad fact of life - a lot of people only check the rules when they fall foul of them.

Nothing in the rules handbook we were given when they joined. No notifications of any sort.

 

[sunshine]

If they're good enough, they're old enough.

However, if I had two teenage golfing children I wouldn't let them play in a comp together because:
1. Good for them to meet / play with other people (sure they play casual games together all the time)
2. To avoid the risk of suspicion if they both do really well marking each other's cards
3. To stop them fighting and winding each other up (if they are anything like my kids )

 

[wrightways]

If they're good enough, they're old enough.

However, if I had two teenage golfing children I wouldn't let them play in a comp together because:
1. Good for them to meet / play with other people (sure they play casual games together all the time)
2. To avoid the risk of suspicion if they both do really well marking each other's cards
3. To stop them fighting and winding each other up (if they are anything like my kids )

Agree point 1 just how it turned out for this comp. agree point 3 water /oil springs to mind Point 2 do we need to stop friends playing together also and splitting the winnings?