Handicap manipulation - how to address

[Kennysarmy]

If those 2 shots are from your opponents then I can't see what your problem is. Their handicaps have come down over a period of time and their scores can fluctuate a lot - higher handicappers are, on the whole, quite erratic with their scores. You lost a close game so their handicaps are in the right area. Think you are just suffering from a bit of sour grapes because you lost to what you perceive are worse golfers than yourself.

12.6 and 16.6 are below the average male handicap so not sure you can say they are high handicappers.

It's just frustrating when you play two lads who are improving and playing enough golf to have submitted many more general play cards to keep their handicap more accurate. Having won last year's winter league I can see them winning it again this year. In scratch competitions the best golfer(s) should always win. In handicap competitions the chances of the same two lads doing well to me should be slim. When the "word" in the bar is, "good luck against those two" - you know there is more at play then just them being "in-form".

All just my opinion of course.

You can't force people to put in general play cards and attempt to get their handicaps as low as possible.

With the lure of your name on the board and £100 in prize money......where is the incentive to submit cards each time you play.

 

[Backache]

12.6 and 16.6 are below the average male handicap so not sure you can say they are high handicappers.

It's just frustrating when you play two lads who are improving and playing enough golf to have submitted many more general play cards to keep their handicap more accurate. Having won last year's winter league I can see them winning it again this year. In scratch competitions the best golfer(s) should always win. In handicap competitions the chances of the same two lads doing well to me should be slim. When the "word" in the bar is, "good luck against those two" - you know there is more at play then just them being "in-form".

All just my opinion of course.

You can't force people to put in general play cards and attempt to get their handicaps as low as possible.

With the lure of your name on the board and £100 in prize money......where is the incentive to submit cards each time you play.

I am not in favour of the WHS , but surely this is for the role for the handicapping commitee? If players are playing well enough to win competitions regularly then a couple of strokes reduction is in order.

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

12.6 and 16.6 are below the average male handicap so not sure you can say they are high handicappers.

It's just frustrating when you play two lads who are improving and playing enough golf to have submitted many more general play cards to keep their handicap more accurate. Having won last year's winter league I can see them winning it again this year. In scratch competitions the best golfer(s) should always win. In handicap competitions the chances of the same two lads doing well to me should be slim. When the "word" in the bar is, "good luck against those two" - you know there is more at play then just them being "in-form".

All just my opinion of course.

You can't force people to put in general play cards and attempt to get their handicaps as low as possible.

With the lure of your name on the board and £100 in prize money......where is the incentive to submit cards each time you play.

That’s no different to the old system though! There was no requirement then to submit cards each time you play, then all
You had to do was 3 a year. But people still moan this issue is all down to WHS when it’s not.

This has existed for years and can’t be blamed on the system, If people don’t like it or feel Someone at their club is guilty of it then take it to the handicap committee to investigate.

I would also say they’re not high handicaps but they’re clearly higher than the people they’re playing against if they get shots and it’s always the people Giving the shots complaining. I get it nobody likes losing and nobody likes giving shots away but the Simple answer is as said before if you think something is off reporting to the committee, otherwise either play better (not always possible) or accept that they beat you which happens. I say it again looking at their scoring graph it doesn’t suggest anything untoward and it’s a representation that they’re improving.

 

[Swango1980]

Certainly losing 2 down gives no evidence that the handicaps of the opponents were too high.

Individual stableford scores also doesn't give any real indication as to what the match play result should have been. Match Play is weird. On one occasion I shot over 40 points and my partner was high 30's. We lost 4&3, and neither opponent managed to score 30 points. However, they dove tailed perfectly, and if they won a hole it was usually by a shot. Whereas on the one or 2 holes we won, we won that hole by about 3 or 4 shots. In singles match play last week, I was 3 down after 9, yet my Stableford score was 4 shots better.

 

[HampshireHog]

Seems a bit harsh to put this in the manipulation thread.

I am very much in the only put cards in as part of a comp camp.

If I hit a run of good form I might get in the prizes a couple times but it few times but it wouldn’t make me want to add GP cards anymore than a run of bad form in comps would make me add GP cards.

So long as people’s patterns of when the put cards in is consistent I’m prepared to accept they are honest, whether they put a card in every time or just in comps.

 

[Swango1980]

Seems a bit harsh to put this in the manipulation thread.

I am very much in the only put cards in as part of a comp camp.

If I hit a run of good form I might get in the prizes a couple times but it few times but it wouldn’t make me want to add GP cards anymore than a run of bad form in comps would make me add GP cards.

So long as people’s patterns of when the put cards in is consistent I’m prepared to accept they are honest, whether they put a card in every time or just in comps.

Depends on the person and how many comps they play.

I know a chap who plays barely any. Plays off about 14. Yet he plays socially, and the odd open every year. Shot a 73 (par 71) last week. That score will never touch his handicap.

Given many golfers play in very very few comps, but can play loads socially along with entering the odd open and club match play event, I'm a big fan of them being able and willing to submit GP scores

 

[Swinglowandslow]

I try to play in the seniors competition each week. But bad weather, life , etc means that doesn’t always happen.
I play some social golf as well, almost always not full 18 holes, and in any event I play those times to enjoy myself, - , gimmes, try things, maybe a mulligan.
I don’t or want to play to full rules of golf, except in competition . Also, Our course is busy, don’t want to be holding up play etc.
So, GP cards don’t go in. And I resist pressure that I should put them in.As much because it is easier to manipulate handicap using GP cards than in a competition, if someone is minded to , so their submission or otherwise isn’t important, to my mind.

I don’t play to one standard.I can play par golf for some good while , but then the wheel really can come off and play really badly. If a good run of the former I may be referred to as “Pedro” by some

 

[jim8flog]

Seems a bit harsh to put this in the manipulation thread.

I am very much in the only put cards in as part of a comp camp.

If I hit a run of good form I might get in the prizes a couple times but it few times but it wouldn’t make me want to add GP cards anymore than a run of bad form in comps would make me add GP cards.

So long as people’s patterns of when the put cards in is consistent I’m prepared to accept they are honest, whether they put a card in every time or just in comps.

Trouble with that for me is these days I never play in club organised comps, however the majority of my cards some from playing in member organised swindles so it depends on your view about whether or not these are comps.

Little as per the OP. the biggest problem I have seen over the years is players that will not put in GP cards when playing in the swindles, so much so in one swindle I play in brought in 'you cannot win the kitty if you do not put in a GP card' to try to stop 2 players in particular from picking up the kitty on regular basis.

 

[Kennysarmy]

All members here have just had this from the handicap sec.

The Handicap review for 2025 has been completed and four members who have received adjustments have been informed.

Members are reminded that in order to keep their handicap relevant to their current playing ability they should regularly submit competition and/or general play scorecards in accordance with the World Handicap System - Rules of Handicapping (advice available on Club V1 - Documents)

 

[Backache]

All members here have just had this from the handicap sec.

The Handicap review for 2025 has been completed and four members who have received adjustments have been informed.

Members are reminded that in order to keep their handicap relevant to their current playing ability they should regularly submit competition and/or general play scorecards in accordance with the World Handicap System - Rules of Handicapping (advice available on Club V1 - Documents)

Unless its changed without publicity there is nothing in the WHS rules about how regularly or otherwise you need to submit scores.
Its just a matter of play up and play the game old boy and do as you see fit
ie cheat if you want to.