Junior Doctors Strike

Having looked at the pay scales and pension contribution rates on the BMA website it appears that the doctors' package compares reasonably well with others such as teachers and from the starting point increases quite quickly.

Still not a fortune, however, and more concerning I would say are the hours that they can be expected to fulfil.

Many of the decisions they may have to make are of the "life or death" variety and yet they can be on call for periods that we would never tolerate for pilots, train & bus drivers and many others.

It is that area rather than pay that I think society has got its priorities mixed up.
 
One thing not mentioned much are the sacrifices, hassle and cost that junior doctors having to go through to climb the professional ladder. Moving from hospital to hospital to gain the experience - maybe only a short time at each post before moving to the next; living away from home and all the costs associated with that; the long distances many doctors travel from home to place of work - if you can live at home - and the very ling days that result; the costs of all the exams; loss of family life. and so on.

The life of a junior doctor gaining experience they must gain to progress through promotions is not like most professions. In my line of work (IT Project Management) there is no need for an ambitious graduate to move company or location as he works his way up. He can live in the same town and work for the same company all his life from graduate to the very top. It's really just not like that for doctors.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
One thing not mentioned much are the sacrifices, hassle and cost that junior doctors having to go through to climb the professional ladder. Moving from hospital to hospital to gain the experience - maybe only a short time at each post before moving to the next; living away from home and all the costs associated with that; the long distances many doctors travel from home to place of work - if you can live at home - and the very ling days that result; the costs of all the exams; loss of family life. and so on.

The life of a junior doctor gaining experience they must gain to progress through promotions is not like most professions. In my line of work (IT Project Management) there is no need for an ambitious graduate to move company or location as he works his way up. He can live in the same town and work for the same company all his life from graduate to the very top. It's really just not like that for doctors.
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Much of what you list can be equally true for many other professions and your own experience would seem more unusual.

As stated I have grave concerns about the demands placed upon doctors but I don't believe their cause is helped by seeking sympathy for them where it isn't really justified.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
One thing not mentioned much are the sacrifices, hassle and cost that junior doctors having to go through to climb the professional ladder. Moving from hospital to hospital to gain the experience - maybe only a short time at each post before moving to the next; living away from home and all the costs associated with that; the long distances many doctors travel from home to place of work - if you can live at home - and the very ling days that result; the costs of all the exams; loss of family life. and so on.

The life of a junior doctor gaining experience they must gain to progress through promotions is not like most professions. In my line of work (IT Project Management) there is no need for an ambitious graduate to move company or location as he works his way up. He can live in the same town and work for the same company all his life from graduate to the very top. It's really just not like that for doctors.
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Is there anyone who suggests Doctors, junior or otherwise are not hard working, do a demanding and highly skilled job and are worth a good job package?

Something I don't like about this dispute is much of the rhetoric thats getting thrown around. "Save our NHS" they keep chanting, whats that all about, this dispute isn't about 'saving' their NHS, is it?
 
MetalMickie said:
Much of what you list can be equally true for many other professions and your own experience would seem more unusual.

As stated I have grave concerns about the demands placed upon doctors but I don't believe their cause is helped by seeking sympathy for them where it isn't really justified.
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I don't think that many professionals must move around work places around the country to gain the experience they need to climb the ladder. Many of us choose to move to develop and progress our career - but we can still choose to remain in the same locality - so the imperative is not quite the same.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
One thing not mentioned much are the sacrifices, hassle and cost that junior doctors having to go through to climb the professional ladder. Moving from hospital to hospital to gain the experience - maybe only a short time at each post before moving to the next; living away from home and all the costs associated with that; the long distances many doctors travel from home to place of work - if you can live at home - and the very ling days that result; the costs of all the exams; loss of family life. and so on.

The life of a junior doctor gaining experience they must gain to progress through promotions is not like most professions. In my line of work (IT Project Management) there is no need for an ambitious graduate to move company or location as he works his way up. He can live in the same town and work for the same company all his life from graduate to the very top. It's really just not like that for doctors.
Click to expand...

A massive wage increase, absolutely! But sympathy for the above, no not at all. Do they really go into it with their eyes closed? These are bright kids that choose the profession. Do you think they don't know what's just around the corner? Are they bonded serfs?

I think the hours they do, on the deal they are on, is unhealthy and unfair but they have a choice. And it's a choice they've accepted and made.
 
I never thought I would witness the day where Doctors who all my life I have considered as professional people standing on Picket Lines with placards and chanting their cause. They may well believe they need to negotiate their contracts but to act in the manner they are is a disgrace to the profession.

Hoot if you agree :rolleyes:
 
Hobbit said:
A massive wage increase, absolutely! But sympathy for the above, no not at all. Do they really go into it with their eyes closed? These are bright kids that choose the profession. Do you think they don't know what's just around the corner? Are they bonded serfs?

I think the hours they do, on the deal they are on, is unhealthy and unfair but they have a choice. And it's a choice they've accepted and made.
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By the same reasoning a soldier who joins the Army voluntarily and gets shot while on duty in a war zone only has himself to blame. Is that your view?
 
MarkE said:
Alright, if you want to be pedantic, let's call it compensation. This 'compensation' is still not forthcoming in other walks of life. Teachers for example get a salary. No enhancements for the work they do out of work hours.
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I didn't know teachers were rostered to do 30 to 50 hours of overtime including nights, weekends, high days and holidays.

Next time you call out an electrician or plumber on call for an emergency be sure to explain your compensation philosophy to him before he starts work. Then you might meet a junior doctor for removal of the wrench.
 
Ethan said:
By the same reasoning a soldier who joins the Army voluntarily and gets shot while on duty in a war zone only has himself to blame. Is that your view?
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I think you are stretching my post to make it something it isn't. A doctor isn't to blame, just as the soldier isn't. Both made a life choice. Both know the potential consequences of their respective choices. Equally, they could have chosen a different path.

Are you suggesting I should weep and wail and tear my clothing because a JD has freely chosen a career that includes long hours?
 
Hobbit said:
Are you suggesting I should weep and wail and tear my clothing because a Soldier has freely chosen a career that includes long hours?
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Yes please, Union Street is where you can do it for me😃 Or buy me beer😃
 
Hobbit said:
I think you are stretching my post to make it something it isn't. A doctor isn't to blame, just as the soldier isn't. Both made a life choice. Both know the potential consequences of their respective choices. Equally, they could have chosen a different path.

Are you suggesting I should weep and wail and tear my clothing because a JD has freely chosen a career that includes long hours?
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No, I am suggesting that you understand how the NHS that you use works, and consider that next time you or a relative are in for a life saving procedure, you should care if the staff looking after you or them is sufficiently rested and or de-stressed to do their best. Other than that, you can give as many or few tosses as you like.
 
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Ethan said:
No, I am suggesting that you understand how the NHS that you use works, and consider whether next time you or a relative are in for a life saving procedure, whether the staff looking after you or them is sufficiently rested and or de-stressed to do their best. Other than that, you can give as many or few tosses as you like.
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Can I refer you back to post 110, in which you quote my post but seem to have completely ignored the second paragraph. It would appear I think the Ts&Cs are "unhealthy and unfair."

As to understanding how the NHS works, I've so enjoyed being blissfully asleep in the resies only for the phone to go.
 
To be brutally honest, who's actually seen a doctor senior or otherwise do any actual work? All they seem to do is fill in forms, talk sympathetically to patients, tell nurses what to do. I am being honest here. I've spent a lot of time in hospitals with my son, wife, wifes mum and the doctors do sweet fanny adams, whilst the nurses and such run about despensing pills, injecting stuff, taking blood...the actual work.
 
Crazyface said:
To be brutally honest, who's actually seen a doctor senior or otherwise do any actual work? All they seem to do is fill in forms, talk sympathetically to patients, tell nurses what to do. I am being honest here. I've spent a lot of time in hospitals with my son, wife, wifes mum and the doctors do sweet fanny adams, whilst the nurses and such run about despensing pills, injecting stuff, taking blood...the actual work.
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Troll alert, Troll alert!

I've had the pleasure of working with some truly great Docs. And there are some truly fantastic, clinically adept nurses. There's the odd numpty, but it would appear that they are in all walks of life.
 
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