Junior Doctors Strike

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

And so we have a two day strike by Junior Doctors and we hear Jeremy Hunt opining that they are try to "bring down the government" - and that what they are doing is fundamentally undemocratic as the the 7-day NHS was in the manifesto. I have to say that I don't recall that or it being debated at the time - maybe it wasn't deemed that significant a pledge so not worth bothering to much about. Anyway.

Truth is if the Tories really want to deliver on a manifesto pledge of 7-day NHS - well they can - just not the way they are trying to do it at the moment. Hunt's complaints are actually not much more than diversionary hot air.

 

[bluewolf]

And the Earth is round, the sky is blue, and the sun will rise tomorrow...

I fully support the Junior Doctors.. All the Government are actually trying to do is soften up the NHS, ready for privatisation.. With any luck, this action will bring down Hunt and make people more aware of what is actually happening under our noses...

 

[Rooter]

Glad my neice decided to dislocate her wrist yesterday rather than today! Already been discharged this morning. Just hope there are no horror stories to come out from todays actions.

 

[Crazyface]

Does anyone know why they are striking? I think its because they won't get paid shed loads for working on a weekend. Hey you know what? That went out YEARS AGO!!!! You chose the profession. You get very well paid. Shut up and get on with it.

 

[bluewolf]

Does anyone know why they are striking? I think its because they won't get paid shed loads for working on a weekend. Hey you know what? That went out YEARS AGO!!!! You chose the profession. You get very well paid. Shut up and get on with it.

LOL... Comedy gold...

 

[bluewolf]

Glad my neice decided to dislocate her wrist yesterday rather than today! Already been discharged this morning. Just hope there are no horror stories to come out from todays actions.

All the Hospitals are covered by Consultants and senior Doctors.. All emergency cases will be seen.. Some planned Ops cancelled..

 

[Rooter]

All the Hospitals are covered by Consultants and senior Doctors.. All emergency cases will be seen.. Some planned Ops cancelled..

I know thats the plan, but can see the Daily Fail headline tomorrow already where someone dies due to waiting too long at A&E.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

This is either about money, at which point Crazyface is correct, or it is about how hospitals are run which is not for junior doctors to decide. They are employed to treat patients, not make strategic decisions on the running of hospitals.

 

[ADB]

According to J.Hunt on Radio 4 this morning, 'we' are all to blame for this mess by voting Conservative as this was a manifesto pledge to improve 7-day NHS operation. Whether I voted Tory or not, I didn't sign up to the point scoring, pigheadedness and contempt the Government are showing Junior Doctors.

 

[Snelly]

I do not support the junior doctors. It is about money. Striking is not the answer, talking is. Striking when you are paid to help the sick and injured is lower than whale poo.


My experience of the NHS is that it is a bloated, badly managed dinosaur of a service and I am in favour of moving to a privatised healthcare system. The French model would be a good one to follow.

 

[Tarkus1212]

I know thats the plan, but can see the Daily Fail headline tomorrow already where someone dies due to waiting too long at A&E.

I had to go to A&E at about 2pm on the day of the doctors strike in 2012. I was the only person there. Seems like those people who go to A&E for unnecessary reasons had figured out that it wasn't worth their time!

 

[Hobbit]

TBH, its hard to really know who just who is telling the truth. For example, there was a junior doctor in Breakfast TV this morning saying that there was a commitment to reduce hours and give a 13% pay rise... a govt stooge?

Anyway, if you were a business boss and had decided to change the structure of the business, would you accept your staff refusing to take on the changes, especially after lengthy consultation and negotiation? If my staff kicked off to that extent, they know where the door is.

 

[SocketRocket]

All the Hospitals are covered by Consultants and senior Doctors.. All emergency cases will be seen.. Some planned Ops cancelled..

Not much solace for all those people who have had operations and procedures cancelled. Some of those people will have cancer and other life threatening conditions.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

And the Earth is round, the sky is blue, and the sun will rise tomorrow...

I fully support the Junior Doctors.. All the Government are actually trying to do is soften up the NHS, ready for privatisation.. With any luck, this action will bring down Hunt and make people more aware of what is actually happening under our noses...

Do you have evidence to support this claim or is it just your political belief?

And what do you mean by privatisation?

Provided the service remains open to all and is essentially a "free" service does it matter if the service is provided by a Private or Public sector organisation.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

TBH, its hard to really know who just who is telling the truth. For example, there was a junior doctor in Breakfast TV this morning saying that there was a commitment to reduce hours and give a 13% pay rise... a govt stooge?

Anyway, if you were a business boss and had decided to change the structure of the business, would you accept your staff refusing to take on the changes, especially after lengthy consultation and negotiation? If my staff kicked off to that extent, they know where the door is.

But if your staff felt that a change in working practice that you wanted to implement would put them personally at risk (in whatever way) then they would be fully entitled to object and withdraw their labour. And so for the doctors - they see the changes as proposed as putting both their patients and themselves at risk. Their patients at risk of harm - themselves at risk of failing their patients and potentially 'causing' them harm.

If they want to have a 7-day NHS they can have one - just do it a different way. Except it will cost.

And I do wonder how many who voted Tory in the GE saw this as one of the key reasons for them voting as they did - I obviously don't know the answer to that but I am guessing that as manifesto pledges go it was not at the forefront of their thinking when putting the X in the box.

Now according to Hunt it is one thing that if not delivered will cause the very foundations of the Tory government to crumble. I don't think so.

 

[GB72]

Always going to be a contentious subject and it has not been helped by decades of elections being won or lost on both parties promoting how much money they can throw at the NHS. That has to stop eventually. Simple fact is that we cannot afford to keep doing that and the honest truth is that we have not been able to afford it for some time.
However painful or unpopular it may seem, some radical thinking is required to sort out the NHS problem. Now this issue is not really part of that but the calls to keep throwing money at the problem remain and so the point is relevant.
What is niggling me is the mixed messages that are coming from the Junior Doctors. The news reports I get are that it is about pay and weekend working but the obviously well scripted message from the picket lines today is to say that it is about patient care. No details about how the contract is going to impact on patient care, just that they are striking to ensure patient care and the future of the NHS. Perhaps the thought that saying that they want more overtime and not to work as many weekends has suddenly struck them as one that will not play well with a general public that has seen a decade of pay cuts, job losses and increased work pressures.
I am not the most sympathetic to the cause. Whilst it still costs, these people have had their training and education heavily subsidised by the taxpayer, they have guaranteed jobs for life, they know that the 6 figure salary positons are pretty much guaranteed so it is not a hard life in the medium to long term. Until then, they have to work long and unsociable hours like most people learning their trade.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

If the 7 day a week proposal is such an issue why are there no nurses and consultants out on strike? Do they not care, is it only junior doctors who want to protect the NHS? The junior doctors are not there to make those judgements, they are there to treat people. Argue about working conditions or pay rates but not decisions such as this.

With regards to the manifesto, you can apply that to all points or decisions. The fact is it was in the manifesto so the Tories have a right to press ahead with this. We do not vote based on individual policies, it does not work that way. You would hope they would amend it to suit but basically if it was in they are entitled to press ahead with it.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Always going to be a contentious subject and it has not been helped by decades of elections being won or lost on both parties promoting how much money they can throw at the NHS. That has to stop eventually. Simple fact is that we cannot afford to keep doing that and the honest truth is that we have not been able to afford it for some time.
However painful or unpopular it may seem, some radical thinking is required to sort out the NHS problem. Now this issue is not really part of that but the calls to keep throwing money at the problem remain and so the point is relevant.
What is niggling me is the mixed messages that are coming from the Junior Doctors. The news reports I get are that it is about pay and weekend working but the obviously well scripted message from the picket lines today is to say that it is about patient care. No details about how the contract is going to impact on patient care, just that they are striking to ensure patient care and the future of the NHS. Perhaps the thought that saying that they want more overtime and not to work as many weekends has suddenly struck them as one that will not play well with a general public that has seen a decade of pay cuts, job losses and increased work pressures.
I am not the most sympathetic to the cause. Whilst it still costs, these people have had their training and education heavily subsidised by the taxpayer, they have guaranteed jobs for life, they know that the 6 figure salary positons are pretty much guaranteed so it is not a hard life in the medium to long term. Until then, they have to work long and unsociable hours like most people learning their trade.

The NHS is currently going to hell in a handcart. My Mrs and her colleagues - all senior highly experienced band 7 and 8 nurse specialists working with women with breast cancer - were told yesterday that management plans are for them to work one day a week on the wards. This will mean my wife will have to undergo training to deliver a Band 2 level role. As she says - she hasn't done 30 yrs education and training to get to where she is today working in a specialist unit with patients with specialist needs - to be told that that role can afford to lose her for a day a week to work as a band 2 on a ward. It is disrespectful to both her role and and experience - and will only damage the service she currently delivers. And she will leave - as will very many senior nurses - especially those over the age of 55.

Mind you she thinks that maybe that's what they are trying to achieve. Cut back the role and level of nurse required to deliver her service so that the service can be outsourced to Virgin Heathcare or another private healthcare provider.

The NHS we have is going to hell in a handcart unless we all dig deep into our pockets through increased and probably a hypothecated NHS income tax

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

If the 7 day a week proposal is such an issue why are there no nurses and consultants out on strike? Do they not care, is it only junior doctors who want to protect the NHS? The junior doctors are not there to make those judgements, they are there to treat people. Argue about working conditions or pay rates but not decisions such as this.

With regards to the manifesto, you can apply that to all points or decisions. The fact is it was in the manifesto so the Tories have a right to press ahead with this. We do not vote based on individual policies, it does not work that way. You would hope they would amend it to suit but basically if it was in they are entitled to press ahead with it.

They are entitled to - they don't have to. Yet they say they do.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

If it was in their manifesto then obviously they are going to look to bring it in. Why else would it be there? They think it is a good idea. You may disagree. If political parties ignored manifesto pledges when they came into power then people would question their worth come the next election.