Is the extent of slow play real or a myth then ?

[Slab]

About 20 years ago when we had a problem with slow play we extended the tee times to 10 minutes.
It worked a treat. The biggest problem was with the starter holding groups up on the first tee. It was 510 par 5. Normally players would drive off as soon as the match in front were out of range. This sometimes led to two groups of players within 50 yards of each other waiting on the fairway with the match on the first tee also waiting. The starter would hold the players on the first tee. until the players in front were within 50 yards of the green.
One problem was that as it was a busy course with over 1000 members at least 30 players were excluded from every medal

Re 10 minute spacing. I've read this a number of times and everyone seems to agree that it works well in improving overall round duration and general pace. Its a wonder more course don't/wont do it

Re my bold. I believe from what I've read that if the original format of spacing at 7-8 minutes didn't also have a 'blank' or spacer group each hour (effectively a ghost 4ball) that the number of tee times lost were noticeable as opposed to about the same capacity available if a spacer group was used

Basically if moving from a pack em, rack em & stack em format then its tougher to go to the 10 minute spacing but still beneficial

 

[bladeplayer]

Now we are getting places .


in the last 2 posts we have a time spacing problem and a smaller (more than likely faster) group ,
here are two reasons you could be delayed , neither a result of actual slow play ... or a group actualy playing slow ...

Now is anybody following me ?

 

[GB72]

Now we are getting places . in the last 2 posts we have a time spacing problem and a smaller (more than likely faster) group ,
here are two reasons you could be delayed , neither a cause of actual slow play ... or a group actualy playing slow ...

Now is anybody following me ?

The worst for spacing problems used to be Thorpe Wood in Peterborough. I think they were on 6 minute tee times and the course opened with a par 3. There was always a queue on the first and congestion all the way round.

 

[fundy]

I would be interested to hear what people think about smaller groups at busy times at that appears to be the issue at my club. 9.00 on a Saturday morning is the peak time. Pretty much everyone is going out in 3 or 4 balls, their own little swindles etc. This is sort of what I expect when playing anywhere on a Saturday morning. What upsets the applecart is when you then get a 2 ball or, very rarely, a loan golfer thrown into the mix. You get tutting if there is a queue on the tee as clearly the 2 ball should be let to the front ahead of any larger groups, you get tutting as they approach the tees as you are moving off as clearly they should be played through all of the groups on a packed course and you get protestations of slow play holding them up. The reality is that, in fact, everyone else is playing at a decent pace and it is normal for people to play in 3 or 4 balls at the weekend. It is the 2 ball that is the anomaly that is causing the issue.

Personally, if I am I a 2 ball at the weekend then I know that I am going to be playing at 3/4 ball pace and live with it. I would rather the club took steps to pair any 2 balls up into 4 balls at weekends or even set aside one loop of 9 for smaller groups. If I am playing at a decent pace and there are no gaps in the course ahead then I see no reason why a 2 ball should feel entitled to play through the whole field.

A few weeks ago I was so fed up with 2 balls pushing through the field that I was sorely tempted to split our 4 ball up in to 2 groups to stop it happening.

Pretty much accepted at our place if you play a 2 ball on a saturday morning its tough and youre going to be playing at 4 ball pace. Thats fine until you have a ko match to play and the only time your oppo can make is saturday morning, then it can be a painful 4hr 2ball

 

[bladeplayer]

Pretty much accepted at our place if you play a 2 ball on a saturday morning its tough and youre going to be playing at 4 ball pace. Thats fine until you have a ko match to play and the only time your oppo can make is saturday morning, then it can be a painful 4hr 2ball

So when this 2 ball comes in to the clubhouse , is it correct for them to say they were delayed because of slow play ?
I dont think it is , and i think when groups like this do complain it exaggerates the actual perception of the problem ..

Slow play and slow players do exist we have all witnessed it , maybe sometimes tho there are different reasons we are out for so long

 

[GreiginFife]

Now we are getting places .


in the last 2 posts we have a time spacing problem and a smaller (more than likely faster) group ,
here are two reasons you could be delayed , neither a result of actual slow play ... or a group actualy playing slow ...

Now is anybody following me ?

So is it fast play that is killing the game? I wouldn't class myself as slow but on Sunday me and my mate had a two-ball up our hoops from the 3rd that looked like they were doing some kind of marathon round the course. We let them pass at the 7th as soon as space allowed. Now how theycould be enjoying their game is beyond me.
Problem is Bill that "slow" is subjective, as is fast. The rules were set-out with boundaries to try and provide quantifiable visibility to when someone has slowed down enough.

 

[fundy]

So when this 2 ball comes in to the clubhouse , is it correct for them to say they were delayed because of slow play ?
I dont think it is , and i think when groups like this do complain it exaggerates the actual perception of the problem ..

Slow play and slow players do exist we have all witnessed it , maybe sometimes tho there are different reasons we are out for so long

Not normally no, if they have any sense they have the perspective that it was slow but was always going to be playing a 2 ball match on a saturday morning.

Not sure I understand why you are so keen to emphasise that slow play is exaggerated. It may well be, but its clearly a problem at the majority of golf clubs/courses and is definitely getting worse imho, so the slow play is a much bigger issue than potentially exagerating it

 

[Rooter]

My track dictates what tee you start from based on number in your group.

Time Singles & Foursomes Three & Four-Balls
07:00 - 08:30 1st 10th
08:30 - 10:30 10th 1st
10:30 - 12:00 1st 10th
12:00 - 13:30 10th 1st
13:30 - 15:00 1st 10th
15:00 - 16:30 10th 1st
16:30 - 18:00 1st 10th
18:00 - 19:30 10th 1st
After 19:30 1st or 10th 1st or 10th

Works very well, i have not once had a +4hr round.

 

[bladeplayer]

Not normally no, if they have any sense they have the perspective that it was slow but was always going to be playing a 2 ball match on a saturday morning.

Not sure I understand why you are so keen to emphasise that slow play is exaggerated. It may well be, but its clearly a problem at the majority of golf clubs/courses and is definitely getting worse imho, so the slow play is a much bigger issue than potentially exagerating it

Just trying to guage others opinions mate that's all . apologies if i seem over keen , didnt mean to be just trying to see it from different angles ..

 

[GB72]

I think that part of the issue is that if everyone is accusing others of slow play because they are not playing at the speed that they are or because the course is busy or because they are playing in a smaller group when the course is full of predominantly 4 balls then it clouds the issue. On that basis people who are playing at a reasonable pace are being accused of slow play and that takes the focus away from the real offenders on the course.

I may be alone in thinking this but harassing people around the course to speed up or constantly accusing people playing at a respectable pace of slow play could be just as much of a contributory factor to people leaving a club or even leaving the game as being held up on the course.

 

[fundy]

Just trying to guage others opinions mate that's all . apologies if i seem over keen , didnt mean to be just trying to see it from different angles ..

no need to apologise, just different perspectives

 

[HawkeyeMS]

I would be interested to hear what people think about smaller groups at busy times at that appears to be the issue at my club. 9.00 on a Saturday morning is the peak time. Pretty much everyone is going out in 3 or 4 balls, their own little swindles etc. This is sort of what I expect when playing anywhere on a Saturday morning. What upsets the applecart is when you then get a 2 ball or, very rarely, a loan golfer thrown into the mix. You get tutting if there is a queue on the tee as clearly the 2 ball should be let to the front ahead of any larger groups, you get tutting as they approach the tees as you are moving off as clearly they should be played through all of the groups on a packed course and you get protestations of slow play holding them up. The reality is that, in fact, everyone else is playing at a decent pace and it is normal for people to play in 3 or 4 balls at the weekend. It is the 2 ball that is the anomaly that is causing the issue.

Personally, if I am I a 2 ball at the weekend then I know that I am going to be playing at 3/4 ball pace and live with it. I would rather the club took steps to pair any 2 balls up into 4 balls at weekends or even set aside one loop of 9 for smaller groups. If I am playing at a decent pace and there are no gaps in the course ahead then I see no reason why a 2 ball should feel entitled to play through the whole field.

A few weeks ago I was so fed up with 2 balls pushing through the field that I was sorely tempted to split our 4 ball up in to 2 groups to stop it happening.

Ashford Manor has (or at least used to have) a sign by the first tee detailing what times you were allowed to go off what tee and in what size groups.

 

[fundy]

I think that part of the issue is that if everyone is accusing others of slow play because they are not playing at the speed that they are or because the course is busy or because they are playing in a smaller group when the course is full of predominantly 4 balls then it clouds the issue. On that basis people who are playing at a reasonable pace are being accused of slow play and that takes the focus away from the real offenders on the course.

I may be alone in thinking this but harassing people around the course to speed up or constantly accusing people playing at a respectable pace of slow play could be just as much of a contributory factor to people leaving a club or even leaving the game as being held up on the course.

One of the biggest issues for me is that most clubs dont provide a guide as to what is and isnt acceptable as a pace of play. Thus any discussion can quickly become futile as different parties are treating different times as acceptable and what is acceptable to one is hideously slow to another or even too fast to another

 

[bladeplayer]

So is it fast play that is killing the game? I wouldn't class myself as slow but on Sunday me and my mate had a two-ball up our hoops from the 3rd that looked like they were doing some kind of marathon round the course. We let them pass at the 7th as soon as space allowed. Now how theycould be enjoying their game is beyond me.
Problem is Bill that "slow" is subjective, as is fast. The rules were set-out with boundaries to try and provide quantifiable visibility to when someone has slowed down enough.

Cheers Greig just trying to see other sides of it and see what other golfers think ..

This has been an on going discussion in our place for a while , and some of the criticism IMO is unfair (& its aimed a some of the older generation in the club)

i know this is going to come up at our AGM this year , & i know who is going to bring it up (No id does not involve me or the group i play in) i just think all aspects have to be taken into consideration ..

 

[woody69]

I find the problem with the speed of golf, is it is a bit like driving down a busy motorway. If the course is busy, as soon as the leading group gets delayed, perhaps looking for a ball the impact acts like a concertina and flows back through the groups and suddenly people start thinking the round is going slowly, because the group in front is holding them up. It's like someone hitting the break too hard on a congested motorway.

The only answer to it really is larger gaps between tee times and ensuring if you have a group waiting behind because you are held up searching for a ball when no one is in front, to just let them through. Unfortunately most people don't seem to like letting people through, so the delay continues to impact back through the groups. Of course over the round, the group that "slammed on their brakes" may well speed up and the course will stretch back out, but it doesn't take much for that to all come to a crawl again. Too many people bunched up on the course. Managing tee times and larger gaps between groups is much more effective.