Is the extent of slow play real or a myth then ?

[Doon frae Troon]

I always think that at club level competitors should put their starting and finishing times on their score cards.
Perhaps even placing a clocking in and out machine in the clubhouse.
If that happens it is very easy to identify the slow players/groups.
The gaps between finishing times were sometimes 20 to 30 minutes apart.
We did this about 30 years ago when slow play became a problem and the culprits were soon sorted.
Some of the members who had complained the loudest about slow play were then identified as the slowest players.

 

[Snelly]

When I started playing in the 70's 4 balls would take no more than 3 1/2 hours. Now the norm is 4 1/2 hours. No not a myth. I would also say that Pros would be round in at least an hour quicker if not more. You allow slow play at the top end of the game and it will filter through to the club player.

I don't understand this idea that if you are slow that is fine, just let the group behind through. You should keep up with the group in front, assuming you are both 3 balls, 4 balls etc. Letting people through slows down the field behind you. Once you have let one group through the next group will be up your proverbial. I don't want to be let through, I just want the group in front to keep up. It is not that difficult, you don't need to run, just be ready to play, walk at a decent speed, don't spend forever on a pre shot routine, and eye up every putt as if it is for the Open. Slow play is the one thing that might make me give up the game again.

Totally agree with everything written, including the giving up part.


I don't want to run around a golf course or rush in any sort of hurry. However, nor do I want to be kept waiting on a hole whilst I watch a 16 handicapper copy his favourite Tour sloth and assess his double bogey putt from every conceivable angle. It is selfish behaviour and totally unnecessary too.

 

[markgs]

on saturday i got stuck behind a 5 ball yes 5 ball of ladies sharing 4 sets of clubs. It was hell seriously if that was male members doing that they would have had there heads on a block

 

[GreiginFife]

Apologies - what I was trying to infer in my previous post was that posters on this thread were suggesting that older members were particularly bad for not letting others through.

I totally agree with everything you wrote about basic etiquette and playing through. Well said.

Ah no, twas me that misunderstood.
We are in agreement :thup:

 

[garyinderry]

it takes around 4 hours to go around a real course. none of these jaunts around a flat sub 6000 yard field!

 

[AmandaJR]

I played 5 times last week and experienced horrendous slow play on 2 of those rounds. The first was as a visitor to another course and we waited on the 1st tee as a 2 ball behind a 4 ball. They ALL duffed their tee shots left, right and short but at no point thought it might be wise to let us through. This continued for 9 holes where we waited on EVERY shot apart from putting out. I was so frustrated and would have walked in after 9 if they hadn't thankfully called it a day. Once they departed we were let through another 4 ball quickly and enjoyed the final 7 holes. Then on Friday we were a 3 ball who teed off 45 minutes after a seniors competition and quickly caught them. Whilst that also took 4.5 hours it was less frustrating as the course was backed up behind the comp but then again why should it take 4.5 hours in 3 balls??

I really try to stay calm and not get rattled but it's hard and does detract from the enjoyment for sure.

 

[Imurg]

Slow play is alive and well and living at Aylesbury Park
Played today, paired up with a guy at the first tee and we set off.
He'd been practice putting for 40 minutes and nobody had gone out for half an hour.
By the 3rd we we were waiting behind 2x2 balls, 1x3 and 1x4 ball that we knew of.
We trudged around, the seems to be an unwritten rule that letting a group through means that your family jewels are being scrutinised and found to be too small, until the 4 ball called it a day after 9 and the 3 went in after 13.
So now 3 x 2 balls had the last 5 holes and I expected the pace to pick up a bit.
But we still waited on every shot, it was tedious in the extreme.
I managed to keep it together on the first 11 holes scoring 23 points(+2) but then lost concentration and blobbed 3 of the next 4. Got it back under control for the last 3 but finished with 30 rather than pushing 40 - very frustrating.
The round only took 3 1\2 hours but a 2 ball, playing the way we were, can be round in 2 1\2 - 3 easily....

 

[HawkeyeMS]

I played a comp recently. The tee was closed for an hour prior to the start. I was in the first group out and we caught up with people by the 6th hole. How does that even happen?

There's a group that goes out early on Saturday mornings at our place. The often go an hour before us and it's usual for our first group to catch them early on the back nine

 

[Crow]

There are various times being mentioned for various numbers of players but if we stop and break down a round into its three main component parts it soon becomes clear where time can disappear.
These three components are:
1. Number of players in group
2. Walking between shots
3. Time taken for shot, taken as being from stopping walking, playing shot and starting walking again.

Course length will also have an impact as will ease of finding ball but these can be factored into the above.
Take as an example a 2 ball and a 4 ball and using the following figures, which can be varied to suit.

Course length, including circuitous route taken by player on fairways and between green and next tee = 7,500 yards
Walking speed = 3.1 mph (according to Wikipedia this is the average typical walking speed)
Time for shot, including selecting and pulling club, alignment, hitting ball, replacing club in bag, an allowance for looking for balls, waiting for group ahead, etc = 25 seconds.

2 ball
Walking = 1.37 hours (this is assumed to be a group activity so is only counted for one player)
Shot time = 1.18 hours (this assumes a round of 85 shots, more or less will impact on total time)
Total = 2.55 hours

4 ball
Walking = 1.37 hours
Shot time = 2.36 hours
Total = 3.74 hours

The above estimates and assumptions are to my mind reasonable, others may disagree.
Changing some of the variables will show marked differences in time. Using the above figures and just changing as stated below gives:

Walking speed = 2.5 mph
2 ball total = 2.88 hours
4 ball total = 4.06 hours

Course length/distance walked = 8,500 yards
2 ball total = 2.74 hours
4 ball total = 3.92 hours

Time taken for shot = 35 seconds
2 ball total = 3.03 hours
4 ball total = 4.68 hours

Number of shots = 100
2 ball total = 2.76 hours
4 ball total = 4.15 hours

The above unscientific thoughts show that time taken per shot has the biggest impact on overall round time, and unsurprisingly this is accentuated the more players there are in a group.

If we’re unlucky enough to come up behind a group who walk the 7,500 distance but take 35 seconds per shot, walk at 2.5 mph and take 100 shots each then the round time becomes:
2 ball total = 3.88 hours
4 ball total = 5.82 hours!!!!!!

If you’ve read this far then well done!

I’m off to get a life.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Alive and well at my club sadly. Same people every week and they care not a jot and will not let people through and insist on holing everything even for a 10. We've tried having polite(ish) words on the course and in the clubhouse, raising it informally with the captain and I'm tempted to put it more formally. As Hawkeye points out, we go out an hour later and catch them by 10 or 11 and we are playing in three and four balls with handicaps of all levels. Unacceptable in my book

 

[stevelev]

My bold: I cant find this just now. I can see where it says let faster groups through if its clear ahead &/or if you're losing ground on the group ahead but nothing about letting them through just because the group behind are faster.

As I read it just delaying the group behind on its own isn't enough for the R&A to say let them through, there needs to be space ahead too

From the R and A website:

Etiquette, Courtesy, pace of play

This section in "The Rules of Golf" states:
Players should play at a good pace. The Committee may establish pace of play guidelines that all players should follow.
It is a group’s responsibility to keep up with the group in front. If it loses a clear hole and it is delaying the group behind, it should invite the group behind to play through, irrespective of the number of players in that group. Where a group has not lost a clear hole, but it is apparent that the group behind can play faster, it should invite the faster moving group to play through.

Both able-bodied and disabled golfers should make their best effort to maintain their pace of play and their position on the course. No one deserves special consideration with regard to this point.

So regardless of how slow or quick you are if the group (including single players) behind are playing at a quicker pace than the forward group they should be invited to play through. But there is also the common sense factor in that if there is no place to go ahead and each group is playing without losing any distance letting groups through can sometimes cause a delay.

But for a 3 ball to be taking more than 3/1 hours is a joke, and a fourball should never be longer than 4 hours, whether or not it is a comp shouldn't make any difference to time taken. If not a comp 4 ball should be around 3 1/2 hours, 3 ball 3 hours. IT really needs more marshalling at club level. And for the Marshalls to have some authority on the course, at my home track they wont stand up for the other golfers, they only pass on a message instead of actively speeding or helping play along. I think if there were more marshalls employed speed would increase as they could spot for balls in common blind spots and everyone would benefit.

 

[richart]

There are various times being mentioned for various numbers of players but if we stop and break down a round into its three main component parts it soon becomes clear where time can disappear.
These three components are:
1. Number of players in group
2. Walking between shots
3. Time taken for shot, taken as being from stopping walking, playing shot and starting walking again.

Course length will also have an impact as will ease of finding ball but these can be factored into the above.
Take as an example a 2 ball and a 4 ball and using the following figures, which can be varied to suit.

Course length, including circuitous route taken by player on fairways and between green and next tee = 7,500 yards
Walking speed = 3.1 mph (according to Wikipedia this is the average typical walking speed)
Time for shot, including selecting and pulling club, alignment, hitting ball, replacing club in bag, an allowance for looking for balls, waiting for group ahead, etc = 25 seconds.

2 ball
Walking = 1.37 hours (this is assumed to be a group activity so is only counted for one player)
Shot time = 1.18 hours (this assumes a round of 85 shots, more or less will impact on total time)
Total = 2.55 hours

4 ball
Walking = 1.37 hours
Shot time = 2.36 hours
Total = 3.74 hours

The above estimates and assumptions are to my mind reasonable, others may disagree.
Changing some of the variables will show marked differences in time. Using the above figures and just changing as stated below gives:

Walking speed = 2.5 mph
2 ball total = 2.88 hours
4 ball total = 4.06 hours

Course length/distance walked = 8,500 yards
2 ball total = 2.74 hours
4 ball total = 3.92 hours

Time taken for shot = 35 seconds
2 ball total = 3.03 hours
4 ball total = 4.68 hours

Number of shots = 100
2 ball total = 2.76 hours
4 ball total = 4.15 hours

The above unscientific thoughts show that time taken per shot has the biggest impact on overall round time, and unsurprisingly this is accentuated the more players there are in a group.

If we’re unlucky enough to come up behind a group who walk the 7,500 distance but take 35 seconds per shot, walk at 2.5 mph and take 100 shots each then the round time becomes:
2 ball total = 3.88 hours
4 ball total = 5.82 hours!!!!!!

If you’ve read this far then well done!

I’m off to get a life.

Have you got a Janet and John version Nick ?

 

[kid2]

I think it's alive and well at all courses to be honest..... For me I would break it down as follows....

Regardless of group size 1,2,3 or 4 balls.... Not being ready to play your shot at the right time.... Not leaving bags or trolleys at the side of the green to be exited for the next tee..... This also goes for rolling the complete bag of clubs to the opposite side of a green to the adjacent next tee just to chip in... When a wedge and a putter would do..... Reading putts from all sides while on the green instead of reading the green while walking up to it from the fairway...

Not picking a ball up when being out of a hole with the frame of mind being I played for a round so I'll get my money's worth....

Hitting a shot and holding a pose until it finishes rolling..... Even when it's a straight hit.... Hitting a putt and watching it missing the hole from 10 ft and holding an expression and pose for the bones of 15 seconds wondering why it never went in......

I believe slow play can be explained in one word.... Ignorance.....

Ignorance for etiquette, ignorance for the rules, Ignorance for playing partners, Ignorance for the course.......
Slow play will always be there when there isn't anyone there to police it.. I know at our club there is no course ranger... And it's a crying shame because players think they have a right to play as long as they like....
If courses had rangers then if pace of play wasn't kept up they could just pull that group off the course... Eventually word of mouth would get around that you need to keep up.....
I know times are tough for all clubs but something needs to be done soon....

Also I don't see the point in calling a 2 ball through your own 4 ball when your keeping pace with the rest of the 4 ball groups in front... All this would do is cause a worse backlog....

I can sympathize medal comps a little... But other things players don't realize is that in a medal you can pick up your ball if you've made a hash of the hole and round...it just means you can NR and still play on but are out of the comp.... It speeds things up no end.... People have no clue about this either which is a major factor also.....

 

[Crow]

Have you got a Janet and John version Nick ?

Yes:

"Get on with it and hit the bloody ball"

 

[richart]

Yes:

"Get on with it and hit the bloody ball"

Now that is a phrase I often use with my regular partners.

 

[Hobbit]

Yes:

"Get on with it and hit the bloody ball"

Now that is a phrase I often use with my regular partners.

Along with "hit the damn thing before rigor mortis sets in."

 

[JezzE]

Along with "hit the damn thing before rigor mortis sets in."

Two things...

1) I experienced this at the weekend. I played at 8.15 so 5th or 6th group out. Quickly realised one of the blokes I was playing with was painfully slow over every shot (tee, fairway, green). We got to the 4th tee (a par 4) and none of us had had lost a ball or had to look for one, but the group ahead had left the green before we teed off. A hole behind within the first hour entirely down to one of the three taking a ridiculous amount of time over the ball. I said, 'look, we've lost a hole within the first hour, we've got to catch up', but even with me and the third bloke pressing on as quickly as possible, we didn't catch up till about the 11th/12th. The guys behind told me afterwards that the chap was notorious for it, and had dreaded him being ahead of them. They thanked me profusely for helping get our group round in decent time in the end. Shame really - lovely bloke but just painfully slow on all his shots...

2) Waving through - I remain unconvinced that this is the cure-all answer that many seem to think it is on a packed golf course. Yes, when it's not busy, fine. But when the course is rammed, who does waving through really help? The answer is, one group only - those being waved through. For everyone else stacked up behind it simply adds another 5-10 minutes to the round as it can take for ever for those waved through to play the entire hole and for the other group to then play their approaches.

We're actually doing a piece in the mag on this very topic this month, so please feel free to write in if you disagree...

 

[richart]

Two things...

1) I experienced this at the weekend. I played at 8.15 so 5th or 6th group out. Quickly realised one of the blokes I was playing with was painfully slow over every shot (tee, fairway, green). We got to the 4th tee (a par 4) and none of us had had lost a ball or had to look for one, but the group ahead had left the green before we teed off. A hole behind within the first hour entirely down to one of the three taking a ridiculous amount of time over the ball. I said, 'look, we've lost a hole within the first hour, we've got to catch up', but even with me and the third bloke pressing on as quickly as possible, we didn't catch up till about the 11th/12th. The guys behind told me afterwards that the chap was notorious for it, and had dreaded him being ahead of them. They thanked me profusely for helping get our group round in decent time in the end. Shame really - lovely bloke but just painfully slow on all his shots...

2) Waving through - I remain unconvinced that this is the cure-all answer that many seem to think it is on a packed golf course. Yes, when it's not busy, fine. But when the course is rammed, who does waving through really help? The answer is, one group only - those being waved through. For everyone else stacked up behind it simply adds another 5-10 minutes to the round as it can take for ever for those waved through to play the entire hole and for the other group to then play their approaches.

We're actually doing a piece in the mag on this very topic this month, so please feel free to write in if you disagree...

I played a foursomes match a few years ago, and we got through eight groups during the match, in fact by about the 12th hole.

Surely it is not up to a 4 ball to decide to hold up a 2 ball because there are other 4 balls ahead of them. Let the 2 ball through and let them take their chances on being let through by other groups. If I was in a 4 ball the last thing I would want is 2 ball up my back. Are there not rules, local at least, that say that faster groups i.e 2 balls over 4 balls should be let through ?

 

[Snelly]

I think it's alive and well at all courses to be honest..... For me I would break it down as follows....

Regardless of group size 1,2,3 or 4 balls.... Not being ready to play your shot at the right time.... Not leaving bags or trolleys at the side of the green to be exited for the next tee..... This also goes for rolling the complete bag of clubs to the opposite side of a green to the adjacent next tee just to chip in... When a wedge and a putter would do..... Reading putts from all sides while on the green instead of reading the green while walking up to it from the fairway...

Not picking a ball up when being out of a hole with the frame of mind being I played for a round so I'll get my money's worth....

Hitting a shot and holding a pose until it finishes rolling..... Even when it's a straight hit.... Hitting a putt and watching it missing the hole from 10 ft and holding an expression and pose for the bones of 15 seconds wondering why it never went in......

I believe slow play can be explained in one word.... Ignorance.....

Ignorance for etiquette, ignorance for the rules, Ignorance for playing partners, Ignorance for the course.......
Slow play will always be there when there isn't anyone there to police it.. I know at our club there is no course ranger... And it's a crying shame because players think they have a right to play as long as they like....
If courses had rangers then if pace of play wasn't kept up they could just pull that group off the course... Eventually word of mouth would get around that you need to keep up.....
I know times are tough for all clubs but something needs to be done soon....

Also I don't see the point in calling a 2 ball through your own 4 ball when your keeping pace with the rest of the 4 ball groups in front... All this would do is cause a worse backlog....

I can sympathize medal comps a little... But other things players don't realize is that in a medal you can pick up your ball if you've made a hash of the hole and round...it just means you can NR and still play on but are out of the comp.... It speeds things up no end.... People have no clue about this either which is a major factor also.....

A very good post.

 

[Sweep]

Just keep up with the game in front. Simples. If everyone did that there would be no problem.