Is the extent of slow play real or a myth then ?

[bladeplayer]

Having read guest100718's thread re "how fast can you play " and the reply's to it , is slow play as bad as we think it is or is some slow play a perception caused by people who want to be off the course in 3 hours .. ? i

Ive been on courses who have signs that say it should have taken you 2 hours to here for a 3 ball or 2h 20m for a 4 ball etc .. says who ? well the club obviously but who in the club says that time is right ?

We all understand that stuck behind a group who wont let you through is frustrating, we have all been there ,

Just a thought or scenario here. ( i appreciate paddy's thread was casual play not comp) , 3 x 3ball groups go off in a comp all taking the comp serious , playing decent enough golf and flowing nicely no dealy's through the 3 groups, .. 4th 3ball , lads are in a hurry walk to the ball hit it , tear down the fairway hit it again etc , dont bother reading putts etc .. they are soon going to be held up..

So do the 3 groups who are playing within the recommended time, one group at a time, stand aside let the speed merchants through or should they have to slot in and calm down .. what id the 4th group were the 8th out ? should 7 groups let them through because they want to get away quickly ?

Who is causing the problem here ?

Thoughts . ? just curious .. Ta

 

[fundy]

Look at how long a round of golf took 20 years ago, look at how long many take today, no myth in slow play. Yes there are a few out there who rush but they are way outnumbered by those who think they own the place and can take as long as they choose, whilst making it a nightmare for almost everyone else.

Your scenario is a very rare one compared to the inconsiderate slow group meaning its backing up on every tee etc

 

[medwayjon]

It is a big problem, but a lot depends on the course

On a sunny saturday here, the pay & play places can be hellish as 4-ball after 4-ball hold each other up by hacking it around in 150-strokes each.

Its painful.

 

[Robobum]

I'm very lucky in that I play at a club which has never had an issue with (to me) slow play. A competition 3 ball has never taken longer than 3 1/2hrs and is generally between 3:10 and 3:20.

There is a natural pecking order for those that want to run round - they always get the first slot in comps and will skittle round in just under 3hrs. That's their choice and it doesn't impact anyone else.

 

[patricks148]

the rules state that you should let faster players or groups though...pure and simple.

I think a lot of it is lack of common sense as well.

We were playing as a 4 ball skins game on saturday so at least 3 of us were putting out on every green. we were held up on almost every hole by a 2 ball. the reason, fafing around taking 5 or six practice swings then changing club and starting all over again on every hole. When one of them hit a wayward tee shot, the other one would walk to his ball, leave his bag there, then trudge over look for the ball then trudge all the way back to his ball which was pretty much the other side of the fairway.

it didn't cross their minds to let us though as we were a 4 ball and them a two, but the fact remains is we were faster.

 

[One Planer]

Slow play is real for sure. I've said before though, better etiquette (letting people through as an example) would help eliviate the issue some what

I remember in the summer playing 9 holes after work and catching a 4-ball up. Just as I was approaching the green on ur 3rd (Par 4), they were walking tpward the 4th (Par 3). After I had putted out they were just getting onto the green, I assumer after playing chips/pitches onto said green.

I then had to wait 10 minutes for them putt out and clear the green. 10 minures for 4 people to putt and clear is slow even by tour standards :angry:

I don't think tour players help the issue at times, but then there are those on tour, like Snedeker, who play at a brisk pace so it's not as cut and dried as just blaming the tour players.

 

[guest100718]

Slow play is certainly real and alive. Me and my regular partner always play early before the crowds build up. The layout of our course is such that you can see where the gaps are and who is holding everyone else up!

 

[jimbob.someroo]

I think the problem is that a lot of people - and without stereotyping too much - people of a certain age (40-70 at our club) see it as a slight on their manhood to allow someone through.

We were in a 3 behind a 4 yesterday, reached the tee on a par 5 which we can reach in two as they were leaving the tee. They were looking for a ball about 150 yards down in the the thick rough and despite knowing we were there, never once looked like letting us go; even though they were a hole and a half behind the group in front. Nobody playing in a comp, just two social groups. If they'd have let us go then, we could have been up by the green before they were ready to play their third shots into it.

There's this attitude of "it isn't us, we're not slow". I've never heard one person at the club or on here say 'yeah I'm quite a slow player' ... surely somebody is or there wouldn't be an issue?

4 hours to go round is the max it should take at our place in fourballs on a busy day, they've even got it noted on the card. Yet, this has turned into what people see as the accepted norm. Frustrating, but without employing marshalls with actual power to do something, not going to change in the near future.

 

[guest100718]

I think the problem is that a lot of people - and without stereotyping too much - people of a certain age (40-70 at our club) see it as a slight on their manhood to allow someone through.

We were in a 3 behind a 4 yesterday, reached the tee on a par 5 which we can reach in two as they were leaving the tee. They were looking for a ball about 150 yards down in the the thick rough and despite knowing we were there, never once looked like letting us go; even though they were a hole and a half behind the group in front. Nobody playing in a comp, just two social groups. If they'd have let us go then, we could have been up by the green before they were ready to play their third shots into it.

There's this attitude of "it isn't us, we're not slow". I've never heard one person at the club or on here say 'yeah I'm quite a slow player' ... surely somebody is or there wouldn't be an issue?

4 hours to go round is the max it should take at our place in fourballs on a busy day, they've even got it noted on the card. Yet, this has turned into what people see as the accepted norm. Frustrating, but without employing marshalls with actual power to do something, not going to change in the near future.

If the group in front has lost a hole then I'll demand they let us play through.

 

[Slab]

the rules state that you should let faster players or groups though...pure and simple.

I think a lot of it is lack of common sense as well.

We were playing as a 4 ball skins game on saturday so at least 3 of us were putting out on every green. we were held up on almost every hole by a 2 ball. the reason, fafing around taking 5 or six practice swings then changing club and starting all over again on every hole. When one of them hit a wayward tee shot, the other one would walk to his ball, leave his bag there, then trudge over look for the ball then trudge all the way back to his ball which was pretty much the other side of the fairway.

it didn't cross their minds to let us though as we were a 4 ball and them a two, but the fact remains is we were faster.

My bold: I cant find this just now. I can see where it says let faster groups through if its clear ahead &/or if you're losing ground on the group ahead but nothing about letting them through just because the group behind are faster.

As I read it just delaying the group behind on its own isn't enough for the R&A to say let them through, there needs to be space ahead too

 

[duncan mackie]

1. It's no different now to 20 years ago - it is different on both different courses, types of player and when playing medal competitions.
2. Within the round, as opposed to the obvious overall time taken, it is driven by perceptions that are frequently created by a mismatch of group sizes, driving distances and priorities. Any waiting around will reinforce the perception that the group in front are 'slow' in some way relative to your group - even if the reality is that if both groups started on an empty course the 'slow one' would finish an hour ahead! (the number of times I have heard comments like 'he's never going to reach the green from there, why haven't they teed off yet, etc etc
3. It's not limited to golf - I play bridge and you see exactly the same issues, hear the same complaints etc The common ground is that the individuals who really are slow simply refuse to accept, or fail to understand, that they really are slow.
4. If marshalls, as the ultimate objective judges, ask a group to speed up, you will get posts on here about how it's the way the marshalls approach, their lack of appreciation of the true situation etc etc - whilst this may in part be true the underlying fact is that at that time that group were the slow ones (99% of the time obviously ) but that's the real issue - people hate to be judged as slow players at any age or experience (actually new players are pretty good here because they haven't established any benchmarks for what's slow!) all of which fuels the not letting people through factor j.b references.

That one of the players in the last group on Sunday's comp didn't actually get a penalty doesn't help things overall to my mind (and I don't mean the eventual winner!)

 

[jimbob.someroo]

If the group in front has lost a hole then I'll demand they let us play through.

Which is all well and good, but how do you go about doing that in a social members club when you're likely going to be seeing these people in the bar afterwards and after most rounds.

How would you go about 'demanding' going through? Especially as a young member trying to get past blokes that have been in the club for 20+ years.

Without causing a massive argument, it's just something which isn't easy to do - and I'd rather wait 5 minutes and chat to my playing partners than have a row with the group in front and let that ruin the rest of my afternoon.

 

[jimbob.someroo]

but that's the real issue - people hate to be judged as slow players at any age or experience (actually new players are pretty good here because they haven't established any benchmarks for what's slow!) all of which fuels the not letting people through factor j.b references.

Agreed entirely.

That one of the players in the last group on Sunday's comp didn't actually get a penalty doesn't help things overall to my mind (and I don't mean the eventual winner!)

Agreed entirely again. Despite the last four groups being put on the clock, there were no penalties even with the last group losing a good hole and a bit towards the end. Really need to use the pro game as a deterrent - when appropriate. Shouldn't go dishing out penalties for nothing but there were several times that players took over double the allotted time over the ball. No point in having those rules if they're not going to be enforced.

 

[need_my_wedge]

Played in a medal yesterday, groups were three ball. Fine for the first 4 holes, slowing a little, but nothing to worry, until we got to the 5th tee (par 5), and had to wait almost 10 mins to tee off. The group in front were also waiting for the same time, they'd already tee'd off and were waiting to play their second shots when we got onto the tee. That's exactly the time my round went sour, we had to wait on every shot from then on, played my worst round of the season, lost 3 balls, and had to play the last 4 holes in fast fading light, in fact it was totally dark as we played the 18th.

Slow play is not a myth.

 

[In_The_Rough]

Definitely alive and well. The main problem to me is when they do not let faster groups through this is what causes the backlog. I have absolutely no desire to rush round as fast as possible and then clear off. However if a group like that appears behind us then we let them through. A bit of common sense and a lot of the problems would not occur. Golf clubs themselves are also to blame as well by having the tee slots to close together to squeeze extra cash in

 

[guest100718]

Which is all well and good, but how do you go about doing that in a social members club when you're likely going to be seeing these people in the bar afterwards and after most rounds.

How would you go about 'demanding' going through? Especially as a young member trying to get past blokes that have been in the club for 20+ years.

Without causing a massive argument, it's just something which isn't easy to do - and I'd rather wait 5 minutes and chat to my playing partners than have a row with the group in front and let that ruin the rest of my afternoon.

Yep, no one wants to hear they're holding everyone else up. I rarely play any later than 8 am, I find after that the course starts to slow down too much.

 

[cookelad]

I think the extent of slow play gets exaggerated by those who want to play 18 holes in a little over 2 hours, a bit like getting stuck behind someone doing the speed limit on a winding country road when you're in a rush to get somewhere, it can feel like pulling teeth.

That'll start the finger pointing! But just for the record for me a fourball should take around 3:30-4:00 hours to get round but if it takes 4:30 on a sunny warm summer's day I'm not going to start arguing about it!!

 

[bladeplayer]

I think the extent of slow play gets exaggerated by those who want to play 18 holes in a little over 2 hours, a bit like getting stuck behind someone doing the speed limit on a winding country road when you're in a rush to get somewhere, it can feel like pulling teeth.

!

This i exactly what i was getting at , i know slow play exists but is is as bad as we think ,

Can someone that knows how please throw up a poll . something on the lines of


"IN THE LAST 10 ROUNDS IVE BEEN HELD UP DUE TO SLOW PLAY with the options of say 0 time 1-3 times 4-6times .7- 9times , every round ..


Im not saying it doesn't exist youd be mad to say that .. just wondering out of total curiosity the real extent of it ..

Thanks in advance

 

[Snelly]

1. It's no different now to 20 years ago - it is different on both different courses, types of player and when playing medal competitions.

I am not sure I agree here. It was certainly different 30 years ago as slow play was a real rarity. Anyone slowing the course down was taken aside for a discreet word.

Tour players are to blame of course but so are the coaches who talk about the necessity for visualisation, routines etc.


The thing that should be remembered is that 30 years ago, when play was faster, people still shot low scores and played scratch golf. The modern golfer or people relatively new to the game just seem to miss this point totally and think that slow and deliberate means careful and focused I think.

I played last week with two lads off 1 and 2 and we were round in about 3 hours. We all played well (I was the worst at 4 over) but none of us took a practice swing or was not ready to play when it was our turn. One of the guys was 5 under for 8 holes playing at this speed.

 

[Beezerk]

I was behind a couple of lads the other Sunday, both were high handicappers, nothing wrong with that mind as I am too.
One player was slightly better than the other but he had the worlds longest pre-shot routine. Visualise the shot, 3 practice swings, stand behind the ball for an age to visualize the shot again, address the ball, more practice swings, then duff the ball 15 feet
I ended up picking up my ball and going a couple of holes past them as I would have been there all day!

I get the fact he was trying to do the same routine for every shot but he was seriously taking the pi$$ imo.