Is technical instruction a hinderence?

[Golf is fun]

I'll preface this by saying I quite like tech and data, but I can't help but feel that outside of the elites it holds a lot of people back.

Most golf instruction seems be all about positions, joint angles, club angles, isolating muscles and all this kind of stuff. Outside of elite levels I don't really know any movements or activities that are taught this way, and even at the elite level it almost doesn't matter because the talent of the athlete means you could probably tell them to do anything and it would work. With golf it's almost like the instruction tries to take the athleticism out.
If you watch kids learn to play golf there is none of this, they figure it out through watching and copying someone who can do what they want but not necessarily in minute detail, or having a goal and adapting their task to achieve their goal. Where they have lessons they tend to be very task based and through trying the task they change their movement, but not by consciously thinking about particular joints of muscles.

I'm not saying technical instruction never has a place, but I think it's overdone in the golf world. I also think technology has it's place, but it's more useful as a measure to if something is working - obvious with something like speed, less obvious with something like swing plane, or wrist angle. With the latter rather than directly try to manipulate the wrists, I think more would be learnt by changing the goal of the swing and seeing how this changed the measured numbers.

I'm curious what other people think, is golf teaching overly technical? Did you come from another sport that was more or less technical (as a beginner and as you got better)?

 

[Neilds]

I sort of agree. A lot of the discussions on here seem to be about spin rates, swing weights, angle of attack and I don't know any of that for my game. I don't even know the loft of most of my clubs! I am an engineer by trade and like technical things, but not when it comes to swinging a club and hitting a ball. Maybe if I did care I would be a better golfer but would it enhance my enjoyment of the game, probably not. I am happy for the person giving my lesson to tell me to twist more, or keep a limb straight and for him to say it will stop x or y, but I think if I was told to try and strike the ball a x degrees down it wouldn't work with me.

 

[Orikoru]

Yes and no. I think overload of technical instruction is something you need to watch out for - particularly in this age of YouTube and the thousands of internet pros that we have now. But a bit of specific technical instruction is often needed. I spent a whole year trying to figure out what was wrong with my driving and why I keep slicing it, one video on here and Garyinderry spotted my flying right elbow - now I'm driving a lot better. However I could never be that person who gets a lesson which is all "at P1 you need to be here, at P2 you need to be here" etc. There's no way I could get my head round that. As you touch upon, trying to hit too many 'positions' would inhibit my tempo and fluidity I think. I try and keep to one or two swing thoughts at a time.

I think some people have too many lessons sometimes as well, feels like making hard work of it when it's supposed to be fun - and their swing often ends up looking very rigid. I had one lesson and it took me a year to get any joy out of that.

 

[Voyager EMH]

"If you watch kids learn to play golf there is none of this, they figure it out through watching and copying someone..."

Yep, that was me from ages 9 to 12.
I also observed, fairly carefully from the numerous and obvious displays, how NOT to do it.
I got every instructional book out from the local library at times - John Jacobs, Max Faulkner, Tommy Armour etc.
I've never had a lesson, so I really can't comment on the way golf is "taught".
I did learn "how to learn" to do it. And I thought about it a lot. That seemed to work.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I've altered my post, I misread the question .

Technical instruction is absolutely part of golf, part of any sport. You can get so far on your own but inevitably bad habits can creep in, bad anything can become part of your game. Technical instruction should help to fix that. The issue is over coaching, brain freeze kicking in. You don't want your swing to be over mechanical. Some instruction, not too much to overload your brain.

 

[Hxck]

A good coach will be able to adapt to who they have infront of them.

Some people (I include myself here) benefit strongly from a technical understanding of what certain 'feels' do by seeing the data. After using this method with my coach for 2 years I can now modify my path, club face, and angle of attack on demand which makes it quite easy to fix any issues that creep in, also very useful to be able to hit a draw or fade if you have to!

Generally of the people I play with the mid to lower handicaps (7 to +3) tend to be very data driven with their approach.

I think what's important with this regardless of level is an actual understanding of how certain changes that you make with setup, wrist angle, takeaway etc will affect your swing.

 

[Golf is fun]

A good coach will be able to adapt to who they have infront of them.

Some people (I include myself here) benefit strongly from a technical understanding of what certain 'feels' do by seeing the data. After using this method with my coach for 2 years I can now modify my path, club face, and angle of attack on demand which makes it quite easy to fix any issues that creep in, also very useful to be able to hit a draw or fade if you have to!

Generally of the people I play with the mid to lower handicaps (7 to +3) tend to be very data driven with their approach.

I think what's important with this regardless of level is an actual understanding of how certain changes that you make with setup, wrist angle, takeaway etc will affect your swing.

I think there is a difference between being data driven and being overly technical. Nothing wrong with "digging it out the dirt" but if you can use data to accelerate the process, that's great.

I could measure path, face angle, launch angle, ball speed etc.. and try to do something different and see what impact it has on these. Eventually I might learn that doing x changes data point y. I understand the cause and effect relationship. If you understand what variable you need to change and why, you can then play around and see what changes that data point. This use of technology and technical data can accelerate learning in my opinion.

This is different from my face angle is wrong, so at position A my elbow should be however many degrees, this joint should be here, I should feel this one muscle do this one movement. Then at position B ...
This use of technology, and technical break down of the golf swing often hinders learning in my opinion.

 

[Neilds]

A good coach will be able to adapt to who they have infront of them.

Some people (I include myself here) benefit strongly from a technical understanding of what certain 'feels' do by seeing the data. After using this method with my coach for 2 years I can now modify my path, club face, and angle of attack on demand which makes it quite easy to fix any issues that creep in, also very useful to be able to hit a draw or fade if you have to!

Generally of the people I play with the mid to lower handicaps (7 to +3) tend to be very data driven with their approach.

I think what's important with this regardless of level is an actual understanding of how certain changes that you make with setup, wrist angle, takeaway etc will affect your swing.

Obviously this makes you better than a lot of pros at solving those little problems - think Hovland at moment, Rory a few years back, etc

 

[VVega]

There is no “silver bullet”. There are good elements in both technical and non-technical coaching. Better players take it all in, process, adapt and experiment to find what works for them.

Understanding the data or swing positions is helpful, trying to chase blindly a position /number is harmful. Quite simple really

 

[Hxck]

Obviously this makes you better than a lot of pros at solving those little problems - think Hovland at moment, Rory a few years back, etc

This is a perfect example of not understanding the difference between a training session and playing on a course.

I guarantee you on a driving range with a trackman behind them, any pro on tour can change any of the above, most decent amateurs can too. On the course it's totally different. I'm sure you've heard "I wish I could take my driving range swing to the golf course" a few times. All it takes is something as simple as your feet or clubface alignment to be a couple of degrees out, and the whole thing will come crashing down while you try and figure out what's going on for 18 holes.

I watched Rory on the range at Sawgrass last year for a while, his dispersion was almost incomprehensibly good considering how far he hits the ball, but he still hits errant shots on the course.

 

[Springveldt]

I like the technical stuff in golf, I love being on Trackman and trying new things out and watching what it does to the numbers. At the same time though you can take it too far. I remember I bought a Zepp Golf sensor that you stuck on your glove and it rated your swing out of 100 based on tempo, hand speed, hand path, wrist angles etc. I ended up trying to chase the best swing number rather than hitting the best shots. Best example of it was when I topped a 3 wood 40 yards and Zepp gave my swing a 95/100, next swing I hit the green at the end of the range and it gave the swing a 79/100. That's why I haven't bought a Hackmotion as I know I'd end up chasing numbers on it.

I've never been one for get into this position at P1, P4 etc as I find that totally useless because as soon as you put any speed into it everything goes out the window. I don't mind a coach saying "you need to get more onto your right", "you need to feel like you are swinging over there to the left" etc as you can see the instant results then.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

There has to be some sort of technical aspects within learning and improving within the sport

The issue comes when some look for the golden egg and get sucked in by the multiple different “fads” and techniques that appear

There isn’t a one size fits all

Some may thrive on the science of it all ( BDC) - and some just get confused by being overly technical

Just do what seems to fit you best

There are some out there that will have constant lessons and never get better

Some that have never had a lesson and do well

I haven’t got the first clue about swing paths etc etc and I’m not sure if I really want too - I enjoy just playing and not really caring how the swing looks or works

 

[inc0gnito]

The simple answer is yes. The longer answer is “it’s complicated”.

I firmly believe that technical instruction is only useful after the person has the correct general muscle activation sequencing. This is what kids learn by themselves - the right kinetic sequence. It’s why you can have different swing styles but yet the all hold some consistent quality between them.

Technical instruction is almost pointless without that basic element, and why most people swing backwards. They become hand and arm driven, instead of swinging in sequence with the ground up approach. People become so technically focussed because they’re trying to manufacture all the different parts of the swing that should happening as a natural sequence. IMO, technical instruction helps to direct and refine the mechanics of the swing rather than create it.

I believe this because I started late at golf and followed technical instructions on YouTube only to get better then worse worse worse. The worse you get the more you go to YouTube golf instruction to fix it. I ended up signing for a years subscription to Rotary Swing. That is the MOST technical instruction you can get (eg do 5000 reps of a tiny part of the takeaway, then 5000 reps of the next bit). I got even worse to the point I quit. After a while I got into Marcus Bell at GRF golf, and it was what I had been missing this entire time. I learned that you need to have the right sequence in place and the swing improves so dramatically. Then I could see how you could introduce some technical stuff once you’ve got the basic mechanics down.

Im far from a scratch golfer, but I’m getting better consistently because of it. I don’t have to worry about whether I’m gona hit the ball, too it, fat it, or miss it all together. I “play” more than I’ve ever done. Which is ironic because ill health keeps me off the course more than anything else.

 

[Backache]

I suspect alot depends on exactly what people mean by technical instruction and the quality of the instructor.
Is technical instruction instruction of technique or is it trying to micromanage every aspect of technique. If its the latter I would agree that it is a bad thing .
I don't think there is a single good technique but I'm pretty sure there are some bad techniques that good instruction can help avoid.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

I think a good coach is able to work their pupil out.
The problem is amateur golfers thinking they need to know every last measurement taken and thinking it will make them better.

 

[Eesat 90210]

Bit pointless getting coaching if you don't want to change what you're doing.

Whether you can do it or not will only be found out once you try.

 

[Golf is fun]

Bit pointless getting coaching if you don't want to change what you're doing.

Whether you can do it or not will only be found out once you try.

That's coachability rather than specifically relating to technical instruction.

However I do think golfers are amongst the least coachable people I've seen. I suspect some of this is my personal bias, as coming from a sport where I was training with elites then comparing to club golf it might be expected. Comparing to things I've observed like club rugby, track and field, cycling, gymnastics, CrossFit and general fitness training, people in these sports who take a coach or even are self coached for the majority they have a training plan and follow it without deviation. Even golfers who see a pro still go reading and watching all kinds of random tips online and then trying them out, rather than doggedly working away at 1 thing until it's mastered.

 

[Tashyboy]

The best coach I have had got me to a level where I was a machine. I can remember some days smashing my drive and thinking I was fantastic. My ball shape was fantastic. Draw and distance.
I then went for another couple of lessons and it was overkill. Part of it was my body just was not flexible, supple, young enough etc to do what was asked. My game went to pot. It was soul destroying.Slowly slowly it is coming back together by just going back to basics.

 

[GreiginFife]

I think a good coach is able to work their pupil out.
The problem is amateur golfers thinking they need to know every last measurement taken and thinking it will make them better.

This is my mate at the moment, so bogged down in stats and swing mechanics that his head has gone. Struggled to even hit the ball yesterday. Painful to watch.

Personally, I have three points of reference generally. Which club, where I aim and where it goes. Adjust as required.

Seems to work well enough for my ability.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

This is my mate at the moment, so bogged down in stats and swing mechanics that his head has gone. Struggled to even hit the ball yesterday. Painful to watch.

Personally, I have three points of reference generally. Which club, where I aim and where it goes. Adjust as required.

Seems to work well enough for my ability.

I'm lucky. My coach is very good at helping your mind, and making it simple. No going into stats anything more than in passing, and no repeating the bad things or moves.
I always feel so bouyed after a lesson with him.