Is it fair that a ladies play from red and men white in the same competition?

[NWJocko]

There is nothing to "sort out"

You can play any Comp you wish using any tee you wish provided that tee has a SSS applied to it

ick

This is the only thing that need "sorting out" IMO that all tees are rated for both men and lady golfers so everyone has the same opportunity and choice of tees. It is where, particularly low handicap, ladies get a raw deal at a lot of places.

Will we move away from the "ladies/men" tees with the introduction of the slope out of interest?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

This is the only thing that need "sorting out" IMO that all tees are rated for both men and lady golfers so everyone has the same opportunity and choice of tees. It is where, particularly low handicap, ladies get a raw deal at a lot of places.

Will we move away from the "ladies/men" tees with the introduction of the slope out of interest?

Most clubs are in the process of rating all tees for both men's and ladies - once that's done then it should just be "coloured tees" as opposed to men's and ladies even before slope style system arrives

 

[NWJocko]

Most clubs are in the process of rating all tees for both men's and ladies - once that's done then it should just be "coloured tees" as opposed to men's and ladies even before slope style system arrives

Cheers, more positive than I thought :thup:

 

[rulefan]

Don't hold your breath. The problem is one of logistics.
The USGA rating system we are now using is designed to give a gender specific Course Rating (still referred to as SSS, together with a bogey (20 cap) rating for each set of tees. The scratch and bogey rating gives the slope.
So in effect every coloured tee is rated twice. Although it doesn't double the time , it is significantly longer than the old EGU system. Depending on how many 'courses' (ie tees) are involved, and the number of members of a rating team are available, it can take 4 - 6 hours to rate for one gender. The paperwork can double that.
Clubs don't rate courses. This is done by trained county teams of volunteers. A team is a minimum of 3 for one gender, 6 for mixed. There are just under 2000 clubs to be rated by 2020. Less than 2000 have been done so far.

 

[duncan mackie]

This is the only thing that need "sorting out" IMO that all tees are rated for both men and lady golfers so everyone has the same opportunity and choice of tees. It is where, particularly low handicap, ladies get a raw deal at a lot of places.

Will we move away from the "ladies/men" tees with the introduction of the slope out of interest?

As well as the rating/timing issue you only have to read this thread (and others on the forum that frequently occur) to realise that there are many more aspects to this than simply having rated tees.

Put bluntly, just because you can isn't necessarily a reason to do so.
Just because you should won't do it for some either!

The reality is that Clubs ebb and flow with committees; commercial operations follow the money.
Players are generally very sensitive individuals who wouldn't see teeing off anything other than the tiger tees on any course as real golf...and if advised they were teeing off the red tees that day would start by demanding their money back rather than asking what the yardage was from those tees!

We have 4 rated mens competition tees and are looking to add a 5th, between the reds and yellows at around 6100. Strictly they aren't necessary because those who want them in normal conditions could easily use the 5700 reds...but don't.

The 'why' to that is the reason that simply getting rated isn't the golden answer.

 

[AlanMills]

in replay to "Are your club or mens captain" question.

sort of the same thing. We play at a muni and there are two separate clubs. mens and ladies. Sometimes we play matchplay against each other.

I'm reliably informed that what I saw happening happens far too regularly and the matches fall into disrepair because of it. Everytime we play, boom, red tees are always six inches from the front regardless of where they were the day before! lol

 

[Deleted member 15344]

in replay to "Are your club or mens captain" question.

sort of the same thing. We play at a muni and there are two separate clubs. mens and ladies. Sometimes we play matchplay against each other.

I'm reliably informed that what I saw happening happens far too regularly and the matches fall into disrepair because of it. Everytime we play, boom, red tees are always six inches from the front regardless of where they were the day before! lol

I'm still not seeing what the problem is ? The ladies are playing off the red tees - the course is required to be within a hundred yards of the measured course

I'm sure you prob still best the ladies ?

 

[Foxholer]

in replay to "Are your club or mens captain" question.

sort of the same thing. We play at a muni and there are two separate clubs. mens and ladies. Sometimes we play matchplay against each other.

I'm reliably informed that what I saw happening happens far too regularly and the matches fall into disrepair because of it. Everytime we play, boom, red tees are always six inches from the front regardless of where they were the day before! lol

Perhaps the Mens Club's relationship with the Greenkeepers is not as amiable as that of the Ladies! Maybe one of the Lady members 'had a quiet word' with them?

Doesn't actually seem that big a problem to me! A few yards isn't going to make that much difference!

 

[Doon frae Troon]

in replay to "Are your club or mens captain" question.

sort of the same thing. We play at a muni and there are two separate clubs. mens and ladies. Sometimes we play matchplay against each other.

I'm reliably informed that what I saw happening happens far too regularly and the matches fall into disrepair because of it. Everytime we play, boom, red tees are always six inches from the front regardless of where they were the day before! lol

A few years ago the LGU tee rules meant that, for competition play, you could not place the tees more than 10 yards in front [or behind] the measured distance marker. The total yardage thing used to be for the men only.
Not certain if this still applies.
If it does, then it means that AlanMills does not have a problem [or his club are placing the tee markers incorrectly.]

 

[rulefan]

A few years ago the LGU tee rules meant that, for competition play, you could not place the tees more than 10 yards in front [or behind] the measured distance marker. The total yardage thing used to be for the men only.
Not certain if this still applies.
If it does, then it means that AlanMills does not have a problem [or his club are placing the tee markers incorrectly.]

The rule applies universally.

Individual tees should not be more than 10 yards in front of or behind the fixed marker. If during temporary alterations (specified in the regulations)to the course, cumulatively it comes to more than 100 yards and less than 300 yards over or under the measured length, the SSS should be adjusted by one stroke up or down and the Union or Association notified.
More than 300 must be referred to the Union

 

[louise_a]

We had our course rated this year, we have only received men's ratings for the White and Yellow tees.

 

[rulefan]

We had our course rated this year, we have only received men's ratings for the White and Yellow tees.[/QUOTe}

Your ladies' tees were probably rated within the last few years. They will only do them if needed.

 

[louise_a]

We had our course rated this year, we have only received men's ratings for the White and Yellow tees.[/QUOTe}

Your ladies' tees were probably rated within the last few years. They will only do them if needed.

The red tees were indeed rated about 5 years ago but were done this year too so that they would all be in line in future.

I made that post as I had read another post that said that all tees were now being rated for both men and women.

.

 

[rulefan]

I made that post as I had read another post that said that all tees were now being rated for both men and women.

.

Not quite. The red tees are only rated for men if the club requests it. The club must specify which tees they want rating for which gender.

 

[louise_a]

Not quite. The red tees are only rated for men if the club requests it. The club must specify which tees they want rating for which gender.

Ah, I see!

 

[shagster]

i can not see a problem
when we play a mixed comp and the men are off the blue tees, we get one or two shots from the ladies due to SSS rating, not a problem, the same if we played off the whites, the ladies would gain a shot.
same course regardless of tee, just plays different
it appears someone does not like being beaten by a women

 

[rudebhoy]

got invited to a corporate golf day in the summer, there was about 30 folk playing, including one woman. they had a longest drive competition, and i was surprised when they announced the woman as the winner. then i thought back to the hole in question, and remembered that the women's tee was 50-60 yards in front of the men's!

 

[clubchamp98]

I think it's a bit of a gender problem that will never be solved using sss or any other
method.

some men at my club struggle off the comp tees due to age ,length of course,but the main problem is their handicap is 28 Max in competition.
so 28 shots over 7000 yds.

where a lady golfer will get 36 shots over 5800 yds plus one shot for sss.

if both genders play to a 36 hcap of the respected tees then the men are at a disadvantage as the max hcap is 8 +1 =9 shots lower than the ladies.

in an ideal world you would get the hcap that suits your ability if that is 40 shots then so be it , as a player who shoots 40 over who can't play to 28 is not going to shoot lower just because his handicap is capped at 28 and the same for a 36 handicapper but she has 8 shots more and plays 1000 yds less

in this scenario I can see why some men are unhappy.

i know the powers that be are trying to address this but this remains unsolved yet.

I think it's one of them " You can't please everyone all the time".
So if you don't like losing to a woman don't play in mixed competition.

but if you can't play to the max handicap then you should be used to not winning and this issue should not bother you that much anyway.

we should learn to play golf enjoy it and just stop stressing about trivial stuff.

 

[GB72]

I can sort of see a point in this. Certainly at our club you can only use the white tees for competitions and matches, all bounce games are off the yellow tees. As such the perception is that men are given a greater challenge in competition play than women as their course is lengthened from what they are used to. If there were only 2 tees, white and red, there would be no issue or, I suspect, there would be less issue if the men could practice and play on the white tees every week.

The other issue is that golf defines the difference between men and women golfers purely on the perceived difference in ball striking distance. Now, there are many women who can hit the ball further than me and many men who hit the ball a far shorter distance than average. They then see the move back to the white tees as an extreme disadvantage, a disadvantage that the ladies do not have to face.

Personally, the ideal system for me would be one where every golfer had 3 handicaps, one for each colour tee and it was open to them which tee they played off. I am not a long hitter so I may chose to play the competitions off a lower handicap and use the yellow tees, or play off an even lower handicap and use the reds. Alternatively, I may like the challenge and play off a higher handicap and use the white tees. Surely that would be the most inclusive solution so as every golfer could enter competitions based on a length of course that suits their game.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Cracking post GB72 :thup: