Is it fair that a ladies play from red and men white in the same competition?

[scubascuba3]

We've had some mixed comps recently, just seems odd that ladies play from red and men from white in the joint competition. I assume someones worked out its fair, but is it? Some male players are feeling a little disgruntled as one lady has won a few times off a high handicap of around 30.

 

[Alex1975]

Nope, but life is not fair.

 

[anotherdouble]

In our mixed comps lady's play off the reds but use the men's card and get two courtesy strokes for that never have problems.

 

[rosecott]

I can see no reason for it not to be fair.

Ladies handicaps are administered in exactly the same way as mens and the ladies SSS is assessed on the course measured from the red tees so their handicaps will be just as accurate. The fact that one individual has won a few times doesn't bring all their handicaps into question.

 

[rosecott]

In our mixed comps lady's play off the reds but use the men's card and get two courtesy strokes for that never have problems.

That's a red rag to a bull for ladies - FairwayDodger will be along in a minute. It's a long time since there was such a thing as courtesy shots. What you are talking about is an adjustment of strokes for the difference between SSSs for men and ladies - it can work either way.

 

[FairwayDodger]

That's a red rag to a bull for ladies - FairwayDodger will be along in a minute. It's a long time since there was such a thing as courtesy shots. What you are talking about is an adjustment of strokes for the difference between SSSs for men and ladies - it can work either way.

Thanks for saving me the bother! :thup:

 

[Lord Tyrion]

For me, no as it becomes a different course. Play the comp together but have separate winners.

 

[Robobum]

There was an issue with calling them courtesy shots??? Really!!!

When the time comes that it works the other way (never seen this happen anywhere I've played before) I'll be more than happy to receive courtesy shots and call them that too.

Every Saturday roll up, the pro will ask on the first tee how many courtesy shots he has to give us today!

 

[Alex1975]

There was an issue with calling them courtesy shots??? Really!!!

When the time comes that it works the other way (never seen this happen anywhere I've played before) I'll be more than happy to receive courtesy shots and call them that too.

Every Saturday roll up, the pro will ask on the first tee how many courtesy shots he has to give us today!

We live in a world where people will be insulted by virtually anything.

 

[scubascuba3]

That's a red rag to a bull for ladies - FairwayDodger will be along in a minute. It's a long time since there was such a thing as courtesy shots. What you are talking about is an adjustment of strokes for the difference between SSSs for men and ladies - it can work either way.

Would be interesting for everyone to play from reds and men lose difference between red sss and white sss shots.
Anyone tried that?

 

[fundy]

Would be interesting for everyone to play from reds and men lose difference between red sss and white sss shots.
Anyone tried that?

why would that be interesting?

men would be playing off a course too short for most, that hasnt been measured for them for SSS and the women wouldnt have a chance. yup great fun

 

[IanG]

Since it is almost always men 'giving' women 'courtesy shots', the word implies it is done at the discretion of the men rather than simply being an adjustment to make the competition fair.

it is nothing to do with courtesy, so let's stop calling them that. Whether men find it an irritation or not, it ought to be enough that ladies find it patronising (and Karen is not alone) for us to adopt the word 'adjustment' or some such.

 

[scubascuba3]

why would that be interesting?

men would be playing off a course too short for most, that hasnt been measured for them for SSS and the women wouldnt have a chance. yup great fun

Well, if its meant to be fair the other way around all playing from white it should also be fair all playing from reds, so would be interesting to me at least to see if the results are mixed or men or women at the top of the leaderboard

 

[Robobum]

Since it is almost always men 'giving' women 'courtesy shots', the word implies it is done at the discretion of the men rather than simply being an adjustment to make the competition fair.

it is nothing to do with courtesy, so let's stop calling them that. Whether men find it an irritation or not, it ought to be enough that ladies find it patronising (and Karen is not alone) for us to adopt the word 'adjustment' or some such.

Cheers but I'll stick with calling them courtesy shots in either direction 👍

 

[davemc1]

Personally I think ladies should have comp tees that are longer than their tees of the day. Playing off the yellows for comps would be my suggestion, but I'm sure there are others.

 

[rosecott]

Personally I think ladies should have comp tees that are longer than their tees of the day. Playing off the yellows for comps would be my suggestion, but I'm sure there are others.

A number of clubs do have ladies "medal tees". Their SSS is calculated in the normal way based on course length and all the other factors taken into consideration during assessment. You don't just bung them on to the yellow tees and say "pick the bones out of that".

 

[duncan mackie]

Since it is almost always men 'giving' women 'courtesy shots', the word implies it is done at the discretion of the men rather than simply being an adjustment to make the competition fair.

it is nothing to do with courtesy, so let's stop calling them that. Whether men find it an irritation or not, it ought to be enough that ladies find it patronising (and Karen is not alone) for us to adopt the word 'adjustment' or some such.

Once upon a time they used to be courtesy shots given by the men in mixed matches. They were what they were called!

Now there is a handicap adjustment, not always shots given, and does indeed vary as to who gets them - we give one using yellow/reds and receive one when using white/red.possibly interestingly using red/red we would give 3.

As to the underlying equity, it's the same as playing a different club (handicap group) from different tees on the same course ie it's theoretically completely fair but practically there will always be aspects that make it less than equal. Arguably these factors are no more, or less than those that come into play between high and low handicaps all the time.

 

[davemc1]

A number of clubs do have ladies "medal tees". Their SSS is calculated in the normal way based on course length and all the other factors taken into consideration during assessment. You don't just bung them on to the yellow tees and say "pick the bones out of that".

Yellow tees was just an example of what could be done. With all the courses getting reassessed regarding slope. It seemed the perfect opportunity to 'bung' in a female medal tee thoughout

 

[cliveb]

Our course has red, yellow & white tees, and there is a SSS for both men and ladies from all three. If we have mixed comps the ladies receive *equalising* (not courtesy) shots accordingly. In principle the ladies could choose to use the yellow or white tees for their big comps if they wanted to. (That said, ladies always play from the red tees, and woe betide any man who dares to use "their" red tees!).

 

[patricks148]

When we had our meet at Nairn Karen gave us guys a 2 shots i think for the difference between the white SSS and the Red Tees.

we didn't mind getting courtesy shots