Is it any wonder?

[Sweep]

As mentioned before, for pretty much my entire golfing life to date I have held a handicap of between 16 and 18. Even with all the golf nuts on here I think I am up there with the best of them in trying desperately to get my handicap down and play to what I believe is my potential.
With my driving being a strong part of my game, my putting most acceptable and even having improved my chipping, I am now concentrating on my mid to short irons as hitting a straight ball in this area of my game seems to be a major stumbling block.
I have had lessons with top pro’s and I am an avid YouTube golf tip googlemeister. However, right now I am at the point where I think I have tried everything to no avail. I really think there is nothing left to try. Surely golf cannot be this hard.
Now, I am a big advocate of there being lots of different swings and there not being one way to play the game. But surely, if one thing is right it cannot at the same time be wrong and vice versa. And yet, the sheer amount of conflicting advice from pro’s, the interweb and even in the same magazine just makes the problems worse, place doubts in my mind and only serves to scramble my brain.
Have a look this video from about 1 minute in.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dw8mMH7Cr4Q
And then look at this from the start to 45 seconds in
https://www.golfchannel.com/video/hitting-accurate-irons-co-tip-waste-management-phoenix-open/

Two highly respected teachers with directly conflicting advice. If they can’t agree on how to achieve such a fundamental position in the golf swing, what chance do us mere mortals have and how are we supposed to learn?

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I feel and understand your frustration and very much was you up until this year, this year I’ve 99% ignored Youtube etc and stuck with the advice from 1 source, that source being my pro.
I was getting myself confused with too much information, my pro would have me working on short game for example and I’d see a tip on Sky from Luke Donald or a mate would send me a link to a youtube vid or I’d read an article and next thing I was on the course practising trying to add or mix all 3 things, just daft!
This year I’ve ignored everything else, worked on what my pro has suggested and my handicap has come down from 13 to 10.

 

[IanG]

I feel and understand your frustration and very much was you up until this year, this year I’ve 99% ignored Youtube etc and stuck with the advice from 1 source, that source being my pro.
I was getting myself confused with too much information, my pro would have me working on short game for example and I’d see a tip on Sky from Luke Donald or a mate would send me a link to a youtube vid or I’d read an article and next thing I was on the course practising trying to add or mix all 3 things, just daft!
This year I’ve ignored everything else, worked on what my pro has suggested and my handicap has come down from 13 to 10.

+1

This is what I found too, find a good pro whose advice you trust and practice what they suggest for a while. I'll bet it pays off.

 

[Britishshooting]

Don't take advice from youtube videos would be one of my main recommendations.

I enjoy watching a lot of golf youtube stuff but never take try and undertake their 'fix' instructional videos or an articles for that matter.

Find yourself a good pro and have tuition with him, ignore friends advice and work on your swing closely with your new coach. You'll grow and learn together.

A lot of youtube instructional 'fixes' and advice is very generic and not tailored to your game. You may have a symptom that could be caused by something completely different.

Getting on a JC2 with a pro i've built a good friendship with has got me moving in the right direction again after a long break. I'm having to rest now thanks to injury but working around it where I can with drills around the short game.

So so so many people don't have tuition they try and self fix problems and usually to the detriment of their game.

 

[jusme]

Several years ago when I got into golf I would read the mags, watch videos etc. This stopped 100% a year or two later. I never read a teaching article or watch a 'how to' video. I quickly learnt that over time you where reading/listening to totally different advice, often totally opposite methods on how to do something.

This can only be a disaster in my view

 

[MadAdey]

I spent too long about 6 or 7 years ago doing like yourself. I was playing off 9 and knew I could be better than that, but for all the practice and trying I just couldn't do it. I had lessons off different people and watched different youtubers trying to find the golden nugget that would give me what I wanted. What made things worse is people kept saying to me that I was the best 9 handicapper they had ever played with and even got called a bandit in the role up when I managed to get 42 and then 44 points the next time, cleaning up the money.

So I stopped with all of this crap when I moved to the US and took another route to finding success. I knew I could hit the ball really well and putt like a demon, OK my short game has never been that brilliant, but my ability to knock nearly everything in from 6' made up for it. So I started to look at my stats like fairways hit, GIR and how close I knock my approach shots, compared to the pros. It was then that I realised I did not have that much of problem really, it was all in my head and expecting too much from every shot.

So what was the difference between me and top amateur/pro? I realised that they nearly always leave them self a putt for par, no matter how badly the hole is going, meaning they pretty much keep the dreaded doubles off the card. So I stopped getting frustrated when I hit a bad shot and accepted that it is part of the game and if the pros can hit bad shots, then why should I think I am any better.

I looked at a par 4 after a bad tee shot as a par 5 and would need another 4 shots to get in the hole. So I would get my second shot back out into play short of the green and then make sure I hit the green with my 3rd, leaving a par putt. What I started to do was scramble better and make more pars from this attitude. Thus meaning I lowered my scores and now I play off 3.

So the long and short of what I am saying is, it may not be your technique. Watching all the instruction videos and getting lessons might not lower your score, if you have a decent enough swing. Learn to accept you will hit bad shots, but learn how to not let them destroy your round. Work on your putting so that you will make more putts to help you save par. Manage your round better and do not let frustration from a bad shot get to you, like I once did.

 

[shortgame]

👆👆👆 Solid post 👍

 

[Hobbit]

As Adey says, manage your game realistically.

About 30 years back my then regular 4 ball partner was like Adey, although his handicap was 14. Great striker and putter but lousy at course management. After one, usual, Saturday comp train wreck I said to him come and play a round tomorrow evening, and do everything I say. It didn't start well but I kept chipping away at him, and a few holes later he decided that whatever the outcome he had nowt to lose. He knocked it round in 11 over, way better than he had for months.

If he missed a fairway I gave him a club that was safe to hit, not necessarily one that would reach the green. When he missed a green, leaving himself short sided I told him where I wanted him to chip. Putting I left to him, as he was good enough.

He worked on it and had a good few months. Sadly his natural character and exaggerated belief that he could beat his handicap every time often got the better of him. He almost made it to his dream of single figures. But he did stop having ridiculously high scores.

 

[chrisd]

Cheers Adey and Hobbitt, cos I certainly feel that the answer for me is exactly what you're saying and I plan to adopt the "get back into play" strategy and see where it takes me. I really don't see my swing as an issue,I've chipped and putter pretty well recently so it got to be game management that's cost me .

Cheers guys

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I am not a fan of online self-taught tuition. Too many difference variables as the OP says. I have got to the point where I know my swing is functional (of sorts) and can get it round. I only get lessons now if it goes horribly wrong, and for a period of time. I look at a host of single figure players at my club and not too many have text book swings but get it round. That would do for me.

 

[IanG]

I spent too long about 6 or 7 years ago doing like yourself. I was playing off 9 and knew I could be better than that, but for all the practice and trying I just couldn't do it.
...
....
Learn to accept you will hit bad shots, but learn how to not let them destroy your round. Work on your putting so that you will make more putts to help you save par. Manage your round better and do not let frustration from a bad shot get to you, like I once did.

Might be exactly what I need to do to get lower...Thanks for taking the time to write it out.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I have only ever watched Online Videos and read instruction books to learn and improve in the game - I have no idea if my swing looks good or is textbook but it seems to do ok. The videos I have watched a lot come from GM or other magazines but not really from the Vloggers - I also think I plan my way around the course really well and my course management and short game is a big strength.

 

[Sweep]

Some excellent and very sensible replies to this thread.
I think - well I know - that I am guilty of over thinking and all the YouTube stuff just adds to the confusion. The problem is that whilst I find it incredibly frustrating, I do enjoy trying to work the game out. Well, I did. But now I think it’s high time I saw some results. I have never worked so hard at anything and for so long without any real result. There is no doubt in my mind that I am a far, far better golfer than I was a few years ago but my handicap doesn’t reflect that, so maybe I am wrong. Like Adie, everyone tells me I am so much better than my handicap. A guy at the range the other week refused to believe I was telling the truth. Which is great but in a way just adds to the frustration and the end result is always the same.
And therein lies the problem. YouTube offers hope! They tell you what to do and then demonstrate how it works by launching a long straight shot into the wide blue yonder. I also use it for affirmation that something I may have found will work.
I guess I need to get over my addiction to finding the “golden nugget” that will get me the cut I seek and as you say, work with my pro and just keep hitting balls. Either that or just accept that it is what it is and a handicap is just a number.

 

[MadAdey]

What I would add is that I'm not saying going 100% negative and always take the safe option is right, but evaluate the options. These are the options I look at.
Can I get it up around or on the green.
Can I get it around 50-70 from the green.
Should I just knock it out sideways.
Or am really in the crap and should take a penalty drop and not try something stupid.
I then think about which choice I would be willing to bet money on being able to pull off. So unless I'm willing to put a weeks wage on it, I'm not picking the right shot and will take the option that I would bet that much on.

That's how I evaluate it anyway. I remember hearing someone say, "never let a bad shot cost you another".

 

[shortgame]

Never follow a bad shot with a stupid shot.

Regarding the OP, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. You sound like a mate of mine who watches and reads anything and everything to do with the golf swing. Trouble is he's tied himself up in so many knots he's slipped in 5 years of self diagnosis from being a good 12 hcp to being unable to break 100. Wish he could clear his head of it all and start again. Wish you well 👍

 

[Deleted member 21258]

I love watching videos and reading books about the golf swing, think is really interesting, but do not apply it really to myself, don't think getting to technical is a good thing.

As a few have said before do not let one bad shot lead to another, my son was very guilty of this, just expecting to hit perfect shots and then losing it on one off shot and then the score was toast, until he 'gave up fighting with himself' and then he would start playing good golf again. Thankfully I think this last 2 weeks he is seeing the light and now shooting good scores, going take him months to change his mental approach.

Never underestimate how bad you can play, swing fairly poorly and score well, my general play is a prime example of that kind of person. I am all over the place some days but just have to ignore the last shot and believe the next shot is going to be your best ever and play sensible golf if in really bad trouble(like in the trees or missed the green on the wrong side, 20 ft from the hole on the green with a par putt is better than in the bunker for instance).

Mental approach(which in my eyes includes course management) and a half repeatable swing is far more important than a perfect/pretty swing with bad mental approach.

 

[shortgame]

I love watching videos and reading books about the golf swing, think is really interesting, but do not apply it really to myself, don't think getting to technical is a good thing.

As a few have said before do not let one bad shot lead to another, my son was very guilty of this, just expecting to hit perfect shots and then losing it on one off shot and then the score was toast, until he 'gave up fighting with himself' and then he would start playing good golf again. Thankfully I think this last 2 weeks he is seeing the light and now shooting good scores, going take him months to change his mental approach.

Never underestimate how bad you can play, swing fairly poorly and score well, my general play is a prime example of that kind of person. I am all over the place some days but just have to ignore the last shot and believe the next shot is going to be your best ever and play sensible golf if in really bad trouble(like in the trees or missed the green on the wrong side, 20 ft from the hole on the green with a par putt is better than in the bunker for instance).

Mental approach(which in my eyes includes course management) and a half repeatable swing is far more important than a perfect/pretty swing with bad mental approach.

Similar outlook to me. The mental approach and course management goes double somewhere like BD, where not taking your medicine or missing in the wrong place or short siding yourself means losing shots every time. Takes a while to get adjust.

 

[pinberry]

Some excellent and very sensible replies to this thread.
I think - well I know - that I am guilty of over thinking and all the YouTube stuff just adds to the confusion. The problem is that whilst I find it incredibly frustrating, I do enjoy trying to work the game out. Well, I did. But now I think it’s high time I saw some results. I have never worked so hard at anything and for so long without any real result. There is no doubt in my mind that I am a far, far better golfer than I was a few years ago but my handicap doesn’t reflect that, so maybe I am wrong. Like Adie, everyone tells me I am so much better than my handicap. A guy at the range the other week refused to believe I was telling the truth. Which is great but in a way just adds to the frustration and the end result is always the same.
And therein lies the problem. YouTube offers hope! They tell you what to do and then demonstrate how it works by launching a long straight shot into the wide blue yonder. I also use it for affirmation that something I may have found will work.
I guess I need to get over my addiction to finding the “golden nugget” that will get me the cut I seek and as you say, work with my pro and just keep hitting balls. Either that or just accept that it is what it is and a handicap is just a number.

100%, stick to one pro and follow only his advice. I'm guilty of watching too much YouTube videos myself. My usual cycle goes from having lesson with pro -> striping it -> swing thought gets a bit stale -> find something on YouTube that catches my attention -> try it -> spraying it everywhere -> forgot original swing thought -> having lesson with pro etc..

Mind you, I play off scratch and still go through this maddening cycle. I think everyone does it, so you are in a familiar place.

But try to stick with one pro and do what he says.

 

[azazel]

I spent too long about 6 or 7 years ago doing like yourself. I was playing off 9 and knew I could be better than that, but for all the practice and trying I just couldn't do it. I had lessons off different people and watched different youtubers trying to find the golden nugget that would give me what I wanted. What made things worse is people kept saying to me that I was the best 9 handicapper they had ever played with and even got called a bandit in the role up when I managed to get 42 and then 44 points the next time, cleaning up the money.

So I stopped with all of this crap when I moved to the US and took another route to finding success. I knew I could hit the ball really well and putt like a demon, OK my short game has never been that brilliant, but my ability to knock nearly everything in from 6' made up for it. So I started to look at my stats like fairways hit, GIR and how close I knock my approach shots, compared to the pros. It was then that I realised I did not have that much of problem really, it was all in my head and expecting too much from every shot.

So what was the difference between me and top amateur/pro? I realised that they nearly always leave them self a putt for par, no matter how badly the hole is going, meaning they pretty much keep the dreaded doubles off the card. So I stopped getting frustrated when I hit a bad shot and accepted that it is part of the game and if the pros can hit bad shots, then why should I think I am any better.

I looked at a par 4 after a bad tee shot as a par 5 and would need another 4 shots to get in the hole. So I would get my second shot back out into play short of the green and then make sure I hit the green with my 3rd, leaving a par putt. What I started to do was scramble better and make more pars from this attitude. Thus meaning I lowered my scores and now I play off 3.

So the long and short of what I am saying is, it may not be your technique. Watching all the instruction videos and getting lessons might not lower your score, if you have a decent enough swing. Learn to accept you will hit bad shots, but learn how to not let them destroy your round. Work on your putting so that you will make more putts to help you save par. Manage your round better and do not let frustration from a bad shot get to you, like I once did.

Could not agree with this more. Regardless of anyone's handicap, if you feel you should be lower than you actually are, then it's going to be down to course management. I was "stuck" on a 10/11 handicap for three years after coming down from 16 in a season, then one day it clicked that off that handicap you can bogey every other hole and still get a cut as long as you try and keep the nightmare scores off the card. My handicap then went from 10 to 7 in a season and then from 7 to 5 then next. Due to not playing as much, and therefore not quite being "in the zone" every time I go out, it's crept back up to 6 this year but that's now because I seem to throw a couple of horror holes in every round, with the rest being pretty decent golf.

Now, if someone's got a tip for making more birdies I'd be keen to hear it as that would soon make up for the bad holes!

 

[r0wly86]

Course management advice when written down is so simple, it makes you wonder why we don't do it. I am particularly bad, I know what I should be doing after the shot.

1. off the tee, get it in play as a primary as far down as you can secondary
2. in trouble, get it back in play primary as far down as you can secondary
3. from 100 yards in, hit the green primary, close to the hole secondary

it's so simple. If it's a narrow fairway and your driver is a bit off, hitting the fair way is your primary concern so hit the longest club you can that you know will be in play.

if in trouble you don't have to come out sidewise, but the most important thing is that your next shot is in play

approach from 100 yards, just get it on the dance floor, centre of the green if you have to just make sure you are putting.

Yet time and time again I will get the big dog out and lose a ball, I could hit a 6 iron and still have a chance of hitting the green in two, so why risk it.

I'm in trouble and will try and thread a punchy 2 iron through the branches to get me on the green, when I should just knock a 7 iron back onto the fairway.

The amount of times I miss short side trying to knock down a pin that is on the side of the green. Why do I do that, get it on the green and putt. I know it's my fault, and I know what I should be doing.

As for the OP advice can be right and wrong, as you say there are many ways to swing a club, so for arguments say let's say there are 2 ways to swing a club, both are correct as in they will return the club face to the ball square.

But if you take half of one swing and half of the other you create a mess of swing that does nothing good. Both halves are correct they just don't work with one another.