Indyref2

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

And so Sturgeon wins Holyrood support to call for IndyRef2 by 69 votes to 59 - a majority when the SNP don't have a majority in the parliament. And before that lack of SNP majority in parliament is cited, yet again, as being a demonstration of SNP having no authority to call for this vote - remember that the Scottish Parliament electoral system was devised to make any one party getting a majority an almost impossibility. That the SNP have in the past had a majority was a complete freak result - it really shouldn't have happened. Not having a majority is not an SNP failure as some try and paint it. No Majority is by design.

And so to today - where the SNP have depended upon a coalition with the Green Party to win the vote - and coalition politics is how parliamentary decision making in the Scottish Parliament is designed to work.

 

[drdel]

Interesting that the Greens support the SNP which puts great emphasis on and relies upon Fossil fuel revenue contribution.

 

[SocketRocket]

And so Sturgeon wins Holyrood support to call for IndyRef2 by 69 votes to 59 - a majority when the SNP don't have a majority in the parliament. And before that lack of SNP majority in parliament is cited, yet again, as being a demonstration of SNP having no authority to call for this vote - remember that the Scottish Parliament electoral system was devised to make any one party getting a majority an almost impossibility. That the SNP have in the past had a majority was a complete freak result - it really shouldn't have happened. Not having a majority is not an SNP failure as some try and paint it. No Majority is by design.

And so to today - where the SNP have depended upon a coalition with the Green Party to win the vote - and coalition politics is how parliamentary decision making in the Scottish Parliament is designed to work.

That's correct.

 

[DCB]

Harvey would sell his mother if it gave him more clout in Holyrood 😉

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

That's correct.

...designed by the Donald Dewar (a great man) to thwart the ambitions of the SNP. Pity Labour collapsed and The Greens decided that they fancied the idea of independence.

 

[ColchesterFC]

So Nicola Sturgeon has said that she will "take steps" if Westminster doesn't go along with the vote in the Scottish Parliament for a second referendum. What "steps" are open to her and what can she realistically do to force the issue if Westminster say there will be no referendum until after March 2019 when Brexit negotiations have been completed?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

So Nicola Sturgeon has said that she will "take steps" if Westminster doesn't go along with the vote in the Scottish Parliament for a second referendum. What "steps" are open to her and what can she realistically do to force the issue if Westminster say there will be no referendum until after March 2019 when Brexit negotiations have been completed?

There is no steps she can't take - she will just stamp her little feet and make little speeches that the majority of the UK will just ignore

Think it's extremely poor of her and the SNP to be looking to force another independence vote on the country of Scotland so soon after the recent one. They had their answer then and it's still the same generation, it's not a "vote until you get the answer you want"

 

[Imurg]

Is there anything in Law to prevent Scotland having a referendum..?
I know Westminster has to agree to it for it to be a binding vote but could they just go ahead and have one anyway..?

I'd like to ask Scots a genuine question.
Brexit is happening. How can you vote on whether you want to be part of the UK( and therefore out of the EU) or not when you have no idea what life will be like post-Brexit...?

I've nothing against another independence​ vote but the timing is irresponsible.
I suspect voting to leave the UK will be pretty final...Don't you want to know what you're voting to leave?

 

[ger147]

Is there anything in Law to prevent Scotland having a referendum..?
I know Westminster has to agree to it for it to be a binding vote but could they just go ahead and have one anyway..?

I'd like to ask Scots a genuine question.
Brexit is happening. How can you vote on whether you want to be part of the UK( and therefore out of the EU) or not when you have no idea what life will be like post-Brexit...?

I've nothing against another independence​ vote but the timing is irresponsible.
I suspect voting to leave the UK will be pretty final...Don't you want to know what you're voting to leave?

No, there is nothing to stop the SNP having another referendum, but as you state, without the OK from Westminster it won't be legally binding.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Rock paper scissors in Scotland then. Very poor from Sturgeon and there needs to be a far better understanding of what Brexit means once we are out and that will take time. This is just using Brexit as a way of steam rollering her own political ends and go against what was voted for not so long ago

 

[USER1999]

If there is another indy ref vote, right in the middle of the brexit negotiations, then so be it. If it is to be independence then it should be under wto regulations until such time as there is spare civil service capacity to negotiate terms. Any other way, and it is just trying to muddy the waters, and cause confusion at a difficult time.

 

[SocketRocket]

The Scottish First Minister is a very manipulative and devious person. She is not alone in her party either.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

The last referendum cost around £13m, payable by the Scottish gov't. If Nicola wants to spend that again, more allowing for inflation, just for PR purposes then that would be a pretty criminal waste of money. She needs the UK govt to approve it whether she likes it or not. I'm sure they will do after Brexit, just not before it has been completed.

 

[spongebob59]

Jabba the hut salmond too.

 

[FairwayDodger]

Interesting that the Greens support the SNP which puts great emphasis on and relies upon Fossil fuel revenue contribution.

The greens have betrayed their voters by sacrificing environmental concerns on the altar of nationalism and gone against their manifesto by backing a referendum that the majority of Scots don't want. Shameless.

 

[Val]

Bottom line, those who voted Brexit throughout the UK created this, a perfect storm brewed for the SNP and they grabbed a golden opportunity with both hands. The only way we would see another independence referendum was a material change in circumstances and we got it. I know many nationalists who's chain of thought in the EU referendum was vote remain as we might trigger another independence referendum.

We have it, the PM should grant it and we should see what happens.

 

[ColchesterFC]

Bottom line, those who voted Brexit throughout the UK created this, a perfect storm brewed for the SNP and they grabbed a golden opportunity with both hands. The only way we would see another independence referendum was a material change in circumstances and we got it. I know many nationalists who's chain of thought in the EU referendum was vote remain as we might trigger another independence referendum.

We have it, the PM should grant it and we should see what happens.

Absolutely agree, but with the proviso that the second referendum should be delayed until at least the end of 2019 or the start of 2020 so that the government can focus on the demands of the Brexit negotiations and a decision can be reached on that before campaigning for the Indy ref can start. Personally I don't think that the government should be distracted from Brexit negotiations by the possibility of Scottish independence. I assume that negotiations for Scotland becoming independent would take at least as long as those for the UK leaving the EU, what with sorting out debts and laws etc, so what difference does it make if it gets delayed by 6 months while Brexit is finalised?

 

[Raesy92]

There is no steps she can't take - she will just stamp her little feet and make little speeches that the majority of the UK will just ignore

Think it's extremely poor of her and the SNP to be looking to force another independence vote on the country of Scotland so soon after the recent one. They had their answer then and it's still the same generation, it's not a "vote until you get the answer you want"

I really don't get this "vote until you get what you want" line that keeps getting branded about. If nothing material had changed, and there was to be another vote then the answer would have been the same.

So voting until you get what you want only works, if the thing people want has changed. There has clearly been a material change (something that was included in the SNP manifesto so it's hardly a surprise), the details of Brexit would be known prior to the vote. If the Scottish people want to stay part of the UK post-brexit they will vote in favour of remaining. If not they will vote for independence. This should be the peoples democratic right.

 

[larmen]

Absolutely agree, but with the proviso that the second referendum should be delayed until at least the end of 2019 or the start of 2020 so that the government can focus on the demands of the Brexit negotiations and a decision can be reached on that before campaigning for the Indy ref can start.

Personally I think the Scottish should have a referendum because 'they were duped' into staying by the promise of the EU.

But I think you are right, it should be after Brexit. After all, they should know what exactly they are leaving, and nobody knows that until it is finalised.

 

[SocketRocket]

Personally I think the Scottish should have a referendum because 'they were duped' into staying by the promise of the EU.

But I think you are right, it should be after Brexit. After all, they should know what exactly they are leaving, and nobody knows that until it is finalised.

I keep hearing this but is it correct? Can you show me the actual quote where this was promised by the Government.