Indyref2

[User62651]

Its probably all part of the SNP's plan for disinformation. Prior to the Brexit deal being finalised they can portray doom and gloom to the nth degree, and disputing it becomes a, "yes you did, no we didn't" argument.

If the UK manages to arrange a good deal it could sway some of the borderline yes/no's to vote no. But if the vote is before Brexit it will be easier to get a yes.

Above could be true but there is also the issue of nearly 200,000 EU nationals resident on Scotland, most of whom are currently eleigible to vote in an Indyref, who post Brexit may well be ineligible to vote if TMay can wrangle that, depending on what is 'negotiated' with EU meantime, those 200k votes could be critical to a close result, they'd all be going Yes if they think they can retain residency and jobs through Scotland being pro immigration/pro EU, unlike other parts of UK.
Just think timing of any Indyref may have that issue as a factor.

As for what deal the UK negotiates with EU and waiting for that before Indyref, it's 27 v 1, how do people really think we're going to get on? EU is not going to speed up its own demise by offering UK some great deal that all member states will see or else all that will say is what's the point of being an EU member state or in the single market? UK is going to 'negotiate' what the EU offers it, end of.

 

[DCB]

Excellent post and I agree.

The problem is it has spilled over into Social Media, inevitable I guess but since the first Indy ref the spouting out on various platforms of personally held political views (at both extremes typically) has exploded.

Having seen the impact of such behaviour on friendships during the last referendum is probably why I'm so sad it's going to ramp up again now (it has never really stopped from "the 45%, "I was one of the Xm to vote yes" etc groups)

Problem with t'interweb/social media is you tend only to get the extreme views (similar to SiLH's radio show, forget it's name, you're unlikely to get more moderate people phoning up/posting to rant about "being calm, taking everything in and making my decision based on that")......

Unfortunately, I think it will be even worse this time around. I've seem some rather vile stuff already on both sides of the fence and we've not even officially started yet.

 

[User62651]

Unfortunately, I think it will be even worse this time around. I've seem some rather vile stuff already on both sides of the fence and we've not even officially started yet.

Doubt its any worse than the UK wide 'vile stuff' re Brexit from both sides!

Social media has good points and bad, at least the spun 'truth' of yesteryear from the top gets properly scrutinised and analysed nowadays and all views get aired. That's democracy, like Speakers Corner on a bigger scale!

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Above could be true but there is also the issue of nearly 200,000 EU nationals resident on Scotland, most of whom are currently eleigible to vote in an Indyref, who post Brexit may well be ineligible to vote if TMay can wrangle that, depending on what is 'negotiated' with EU meantime, those 200k votes could be critical to a close result, they'd all be going Yes if they think they can retain residency and jobs through Scotland being pro immigration/pro EU, unlike other parts of UK.
Just think timing of any Indyref may have that issue as a factor.

As for what deal the UK negotiates with EU and waiting for that before Indyref, it's 27 v 1, how do people really think we're going to get on? EU is not going to speed up its own demise by offering UK some great deal that all member states will see or else all that will say is what's the point of being an EU member state or in the single market? UK is going to 'negotiate' what the EU offers it, end of.

Wise words

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Listening to most thoughts on current EU nationals living in the UK the consensus is that the UK has no intention of bargaining with them other than to make sure UK citizens are treated in the same way. Talks will happen at the very beginning and an agreement should happen very quickly which gives people the same rights they have now, on both sides of the fence. The key question will be when is the cut off date. It may be the date article 50 is invoked, it may be slightly before. Either way it is highly unlikely to be back dated 2 years, that would simply be impractical to enforce. Anyone eligible to vote in an indyref2 now, today, is still likely to be able to vote in two years time if they still live in Scotland.

I have not heard anything from anyone that suggests any different to the above. There will be no kicking out of existing EU nationals in any way as that is in no ones interests.

 

[NWJocko]

Doubt its any worse than the UK wide 'vile stuff' re Brexit from both sides!

Social media has good points and bad, at least the spun 'truth' of yesteryear from the top gets properly scrutinised and analysed nowadays and all views get aired. That's democracy, like Speakers Corner on a bigger scale!

I agree that it's good that things are discussed and scrutinised more closely via 24 hour news (on a variety of media sources) these days.

The flip side is people who feel so strongly about their position they hound people or attempt to make them feel guilty for their choice to the extremes you can observe pretty easily.......

Both sides (in both debates) are guilty.

 

[Region3]

The flip side is people who feel so strongly about their position they hound people or attempt to make them feel guilty for their choice to the extremes you can observe pretty easily.......

Luckily we don't have any of that on here...

 

[drdel]

Wasn't Johanna Cherry QC quite magnificent on QT last night.

Never seen such a silenced QT audience. Or panel come to that.

They were aghast that a seemingly intelligent QC could demonstrate such a narrow view of the real would. A world in which 5million people expect to fund a fully operational international machine of goverment when they cant manage their domestic affairs.

I guests if you accept the SNP's 2millions supporters are right then she can do no wrong.

 

[ColchesterFC]

Is there not a case to say to Nicola Sturgeon that yes she can have her 2nd referendum but it has to be 6 months from now and we will delay triggering Article 50 until the day after that vote. That way the UK government will know if they are negotiating a deal for England, Wales and N. Ireland only or for the whole of the UK. What's the point in trying to negotiate a deal that tries to take into consideration what Scotland wants if they are going to leave the UK anyway. Let them decide whether to stay or leave first and then negotiate the best deal for the UK afterwards.

 

[lobthewedge]

Is there not a case to say to Nicola Sturgeon that yes she can have her 2nd referendum but it has to be 6 months from now and we will delay triggering Article 50 until the day after that vote. That way the UK government will know if they are negotiating a deal for England, Wales and N. Ireland only or for the whole of the UK. What's the point in trying to negotiate a deal that tries to take into consideration what Scotland wants if they are going to leave the UK anyway. Let them decide whether to stay or leave first and then negotiate the best deal for the UK afterwards.

As a scot, I would sooner see what brexit looks like, live with it for a year or two and see how it's panning out.

If after a few years it's not going so well, then by all means, let's look at other alternatives, one of which may be independance.

 

[Fish]

She doesn't want to wait, she is like Trump, scream & scream until you get your own way.

Problem middle child 🤔

 

[Doon frae Troon]

As a scot, I would sooner see what brexit looks like, live with it for a year or two and see how it's panning out.

If after a few years it's not going so well, then by all means, let's look at other alternatives, one of which may be independance.

You could be right.
That'll be Indyref3 [The winner] just after the Tories are elected to Westminster with a huge majority.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

She doesn't want to wait, she is like Trump, scream & scream until you get your own way.

Problem middle child 樂

So true :whoo:

 

[ColchesterFC]

You could be right.
That'll be Indyref3 [The winner] just after the Tories are elected to Westminster with a huge majority.

Do you think that there will be anything written in to the legislation that allows Indyref2 to go ahead that will say that there won't be a further referendum for X number of years?

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Do you think that there will be anything written in to the legislation that allows Indyref2 to go ahead that will say that there won't be a further referendum for X number of years?

That is up to the people of Scotland to decide.

 

[ColchesterFC]

Wouldn't the legislation be agreed between the SNP and the Westminster government? How would the Scottish people get a say in the matter?

 

[SocketRocket]

That is up to the people of Scotland to decide.

Not if they vote 'No'

 

[IanM]

So, reading all the narrative......any vote is about who will give the SNP the most cash to subsidise their neo Marxist economic policies....

....shame. It used to be about independence :rofl:

 

[ColchesterFC]

Just heard this on Adam Hill's The Last Leg......If they get a yes vote in the next indy ref is it ok to call it a Scotch Eggxit.

Made me chuckle.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

So, reading all the narrative......any vote is about who will give the SNP the most cash to subsidise their neo Marxist economic policies....

....shame. It used to be about independence :rofl:

Inside your head that may be the case.
Many others will see it differently.