Indyref2

[ColchesterFC]

Apart from the SNP what opposition party is there to challenge the Tories though? Scottish labour are all but finished.

Not just Scottish Labour as long as Corbyn stays as leader.

 

[NWJocko]

What I was getting at is that while the SNP do have some powers, they do not have total control over all matters. I am pro-independence, but I am not pro SNP.

Apart from the SNP what opposition party is there to challenge the Tories though? Scottish labour are all but finished.

I'm not necessarily anti independence but very much anti SNP!

The fact there is no opposition in Scotland would scare the bejesus out of me even more looking beyond a yes vote..... The SNP hardly have a sparkling record of governing, given even more freedom (pardon the pun ) god only knows how they would fare with no real opposition to keep them in check......

I am enormously sceptical whenever the SNP say they are doing something in the best interests of the Scottish people....!

 

[Raesy92]

I'm not necessarily anti independence but very much anti SNP!

The fact there is no opposition in Scotland would scare the bejesus out of me even more looking beyond a yes vote..... The SNP hardly have a sparkling record of governing, given even more freedom (pardon the pun ) god only knows how they would fare with no real opposition to keep them in check......

I am enormously sceptical whenever the SNP say they are doing something in the best interests of the Scottish people....!

If Scotland were to become independent, the SNP would more than likely break apart. Different political parties would come to the table and there would be a more widespread choice available. I very much doubt the SNP would continue as is. More chance of the Tories having complete control for the next few decades than the SNP dominating for the same stretch of time in an indy Scotland.

 

[Raesy92]

Not just Scottish Labour as long as Corbyn stays as leader.

Which makes it all the more worrying. Complete Tory rule with no credible opposition, not good for democracy.

 

[SocketRocket]

Different Brexit agreements can be more or less beneficial. If TM wants Scotland to remain in the UK surely she'd negotiate with this in mind.

The SNP are not really bothered about the EU, they just use Brexit so they can use their weasel words to promote independence; their only real objective irrespective of the damage it will inflict. As I have said the UK is massively Scotland's most important market and supporter.

 

[ColchesterFC]

Which makes it all the more worrying. Complete Tory rule with no credible opposition, not good for democracy.

Not at all but the hope has to be that if/when Labour get totally destroyed at the next election with Corbyn as leader they will get rid of him and elect a leader that will be less divisive and actually have a chance of winning a general election.

 

[Hobbit]

It will be very interesting to see what sort of Scotland the SNP will be offering to entice people to vote yes.

What happens if they can't offer a guaranteed membership of the EU? And if they can guarantee membership, on what terms(contribution)?

With exports of £48bn to the U.K., and £12bn to the EU, I hope the SNP can garner a good trade deal. But what happens if they are members of the EU, and Brussels says no trade deal with the U.K.?

Should be fun.

 

[SocketRocket]

It will be very interesting to see what sort of Scotland the SNP will be offering to entice people to vote yes.

What happens if they can't offer a guaranteed membership of the EU? And if they can guarantee membership, on what terms(contribution)?

With exports of £48bn to the U.K., and £12bn to the EU, I hope the SNP can garner a good trade deal. But what happens if they are members of the EU, and Brussels says no trade deal with the U.K.?

Should be fun.

The SNP will offer anything they want to entice people to vote 'Yes'. The problem I see for Scotland is that if they go Indy and things probably go bad then the SNP will be turfed out and someone else will have to try and sort out the mess.

 

[Old Skier]

The democratic views of the Scottish people was overwhelmingly in favour of remaining in the EU.

Not sure anymore what democracy means. I take it the views of the majority no longer matter.

 

[Old Skier]

It will be very interesting to see what sort of Scotland the SNP will be offering to entice people to vote yes.

What happens if they can't offer a guaranteed membership of the EU? And if they can guarantee membership, on what terms(contribution)?

With exports of £48bn to the U.K., and £12bn to the EU, I hope the SNP can garner a good trade deal. But what happens if they are members of the EU, and Brussels says no trade deal with the U.K.?

Should be fun.

Funny how remainers on the other thread aren't asking "What is the plan" if the road to independence is accomplished.

 

[FairwayDodger]

The democratic views of the Scottish people was overwhelmingly in favour of remaining in the EU.

And the uk, although the nats are picking and choosing which referenda results suit their separatist agenda.

 

[DCB]

I'm not necessarily anti independence but very much anti SNP!

The fact there is no opposition in Scotland would scare the bejesus out of me even more looking beyond a yes vote..... The SNP hardly have a sparkling record of governing, given even more freedom (pardon the pun ) god only knows how they would fare with no real opposition to keep them in check......

I am enormously sceptical whenever the SNP say they are doing something in the best interests of the Scottish people....!

Some spectacular cockups from the SNP include creating a single national Fire and Rescue Service and creating Police Scotland out of several local fire services and police forces. Straight away these bodies lost their VAT exempt status and now have to pay a not inconsiderable sum of VAT on an ongoing annual basis. So much for streamlining and cost saving. The education system has been tweaked and tinkered with, if not annually, then at least every couple of years. This has caused confusion and mayhem in the class rooms and the end result is a drop off i standards across the whole school system. The Free Prescriptions means that people go to the doctor to get a script for paracetamol when they could buy them at very little cost across the counter. Those on long term medication used to need a pre paid certificate for their meds to keep costs down, now it's all free... at a huge cost to the country. Some classic blunders on major infrastructure projects as well have meant a lot of "rob peter to pay paul" scenarios as money is moved about to make everything look as if there is no problem.

Donald Dewar has a lot to answer for !

 

[Old Skier]

^^^^^Heretic 😊

 

[IanM]

So, the SNP argument for 2nd Referendum is that they want to see if the financial deal is better in an Independent UK, or the EU?

Nothing to do with Independence then, more about who'll give them the most funding? Who knows.

But, I will respect whatever Scotland votes for......... and I wont go on about it for months!

 

[Val]

The democratic views of the Scottish people was overwhelmingly in favour of remaining in the EU.

We also voted to remain within the U.K. But that seems to have been forgotten conveniently.

 

[User62651]

We also voted to remain within the U.K. But that seems to have been forgotten conveniently.

No point moaning about that until more people stop voting SNP.
That might happen if Labour or another UK wide party get themselves in order or the Tory party sees past it's well-off southern bias but until then the party in power in Holyrood (with assistance from minor parties as needs be) will try and meets its goals via the legal and democratic means.

It's simple, dont vote SNP in Scotland if you dont want Indyrefs, otherwise get used to it. UK government is Conservative and runs the rule over all of us with a 22% vote share in Scotland and 37% vote share UK wide. Hardly fair but was politics ever fair.

May's primary objective is to get as much of the massive 12%+ UKIP vote share at last GE back to the Tories for their benefit. She'll only do that through a hard brexit.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

What I was getting at is that while the SNP do have some powers, they do not have total control over all matters. I am pro-independence, but I am not pro SNP.

Apart from the SNP what opposition party is there to challenge the Tories though? Scottish labour are all but finished.

Quite. At the next Westminster GE in 2020 the Scottish electorate could turn against the SNP en masse - and elect 59 Labour MPs. Yet Labour's failures and potential collapse in England and Wales might make that all a waste of time - with Scotland (and the rUK) facing the prospect of a Tory government until 2030 GE.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

The SNP will offer anything they want to entice people to vote 'Yes'. The problem I see for Scotland is that if they go Indy and things probably go bad then the SNP will be turfed out and someone else will have to try and sort out the mess.

A wee bit like 'you know what' then

 

[NWJocko]

Aren't these bullet points talking about what would change assuming we were still in the EU?

I haven't read the whole manifesto as I'm not unhealthily obsessed like you but the context seems to be making changes from within? Could be wrong.....

No answer for this question SiLH?

Just I saw you still banging on about the "broken manifesto commitment" on another thread......

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

No answer for this question SiLH?

Just I saw you still banging on about the "broken manifesto commitment" on another thread......

What question

And the manifesto point in respect of the Single Market being broken. As if really care.

However the point is that no-one who voted to Leave the EU can claim that leaving the EU inevitably included leaving the SM - and that those who have said that they knew that a vote to Leave would also inevitably mean leaving the single market are either telling porkies or were misinformed - as it did not - and never did. The Tory Party manifesto was quite clear that the Tories did not want or expect leaving the EU to result in leaving the SM. But such is the level of misinformation and misunderstanding about immigration.

Anyway - no more from me on that on this thread.