Indyref2

[drdel]

So a Scotland of 5+mill want independence from UK of 65mill to be junior to 350mill. Yet object to Uk 's desire to be independent.

 

[Hobbit]

It is a possession now that the Sewell commission has been rendered useless.
We are stuck with this forever.
http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-fine-print/#comments

C'mon Doon, you post some great thoughtful stuff but that isn't even good enough to be toilet paper. The "poor hurt me" diatribe coming out of Scotland is getting a little thin. At least go for independence with ambition for Scotland to grow, not to get away from the nasty English parliament.

A question for you; what would change if Scotland became independent? All the institutions that Scotland has they will still have. All the bills they currently pay they'll still pay. What is the nirvana just over the horizon?

BTW, I'm all for Scottish independence. I just don't get the lack of honesty surrounding the campaign to get there.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

C'mon Doon, you post some great thoughtful stuff but that isn't even good enough to be toilet paper. The "poor hurt me" diatribe coming out of Scotland is getting a little thin. At least go for independence with ambition for Scotland to grow, not to get away from the nasty English parliament.

A question for you; what would change if Scotland became independent? All the institutions that Scotland has they will still have. All the bills they currently pay they'll still pay. What is the nirvana just over the horizon?

BTW, I'm all for Scottish independence. I just don't get the lack of honesty surrounding the campaign to get there.[/QUOTE

I think the main thing would be a country that I am comfortable to live in, is inclusive, welcoming and something to be proud of.

England dominates the UK and has taken a serious lurch towards right wing politics. Many areas now appear to be exclusive and unfriendly towards 'people not like us'.

 

[MegaSteve]

I think the main thing would be a country that I am comfortable to live in, is inclusive, welcoming and something to be proud of.

England dominates the UK and has taken a serious lurch towards right wing politics. Many areas now appear to be exclusive and unfriendly towards 'people not like us'.

In the borough I live, at some of the schools for 90%+ of the pupils, English is not the first language... Whilst my Grandson was at one of these schools, in his class of 35 [iirc], there were sixteen different nationalities represented.... How is that not 'welcoming' ? Do you genuinely honestly believe your local community would be as welcoming with this level of 'newcomers'?


And, the reason why folk have turned to the right is because the left seemingly have placed ordinary folk on ignore...

 

[Doon frae Troon]

In the borough I live, at some of the schools for 90%+ of the pupils, English is not the first language... Whilst my Grandson was at one of these schools, in his class of 35 [iirc], there were sixteen different nationalities represented.... How is that not 'welcoming' ? Do you genuinely honestly believe your local community would be as welcoming with this level of 'newcomers'?


And, the reason why folk have turned to the right is because the left seemingly have placed ordinary folk on ignore...

You may find this hard to believe but I was not thinking about immigrants when I said inclusive and welcoming..

 

[delc]

So a Scotland of 5+mill want independence from UK of 65mill to be junior to 350mill. Yet object to Uk 's desire to be independent.

Looking at it the other way round, in her recent speech in Scotland, Mrs May told the Scots that staying in a bigger Union (the UK) is a good thing, whilst the whole UK leaving a bigger Union (the EU) is also a good thing! Both can't be right!

I believe that staying in the EU and the Single Market was the reason why Scotland voted to remain in the UK in the last Indyref, so if the UK leaves the EU there is no reason for Scotland to stay! Go for independence and the EU will probably welcome you with open arms, to teach England and Wales a lesson if nothing else! 😀

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Looking at it the other way round, in her recent speech in Scotland, Mrs May told the Scots that staying in a bigger Union (the UK) is a good thing, whilst the whole UK leaving a bigger Union (the EU) is also a good thing! Both can't be right!

I believe that staying in the EU and the Single Market was the reason why Scotland voted to remain in the UK in the last Indyref, so if the UK leaves the EU there is no reason for Scotland to stay! Go for independence and the EU will probably welcome you with open arms, to teach England and Wales a lesson if nothing else! 😀

May's speech to the Scottish Tories was one of astonishing condescension and chutzpah.

And you get idiots like the journalist Andrew Pierce asking why it is that we (England) should not have a vote to Kick -- Scotland -- Out (of the UK). Nobody tell him that that is completely impossible, and that he is being extremely disingenuous and rabble-rousing?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Yes, Pierce is an idiot but the SNP are continuously being divisive and rabble rousing so no high ground to be taken there.

 

[drdel]

Both you(SWILH) and Delc are deliberately choosing to mix differing situations. Scotland benefits from the Union, but the UK will not benefit from the EU as the trends in policy are evident to anyone with an ounce of analytic ability can see.

 

[Leftie]

...... the journalist Andrew Pierce asking why it is that we (England) should not have a vote to Kick -- Scotland -- Out (of the UK).

You obviously heard a different part of that programme than I did. The part I listened to was more along the lines of if England were (hypothetically) given a referendum on whether Scotland should stay or leave the UK, which way would it go. Not quite as emotive as your interpretation. There again, I didn't hear the end of the programme so you might have picked the right result

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Both you(SWILH) and Delc are deliberately choosing to mix differing situations. Scotland benefits from the Union, but the UK will not benefit from the EU as the trends in policy are evident to anyone with an ounce of analytic ability can see.

I think Scotland benefits more from being in the EU than the UK.

The EU understands regional development whilst the UK government votes it down at every opportunity.
And yet the UK government expect Scots to pay for development in the richest parts of the UK.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

May's speech to the Scottish Tories was one of astonishing condescension and chutzpah.

And you get idiots like the journalist Andrew Pierce asking why it is that we (England) should not have a vote to Kick -- Scotland -- Out (of the UK). Nobody tell him that that is completely impossible, and that he is being extremely disingenuous and rabble-rousing?

May is a Tory leader telling lies and going back on her promises to Scotland.......what's new.

 

[ColchesterFC]

Looking at it the other way round, in her recent speech in Scotland, Mrs May told the Scots that staying in a bigger Union (the UK) is a good thing, whilst the whole UK leaving a bigger Union (the EU) is also a good thing! Both can't be right!

Why not? The two events are separate decisions. May could be saying that Scotland gets more benefits from their union with the rest of the UK than the UK gets from the union with the EU.

 

[Hobbit]

May's speech to the Scottish Tories was one of astonishing condescension and chutzpah.

And you get idiots like the journalist Andrew Pierce asking why it is that we (England) should not have a vote to Kick -- Scotland -- Out (of the UK). Nobody tell him that that is completely impossible, and that he is being extremely disingenuous and rabble-rousing?

And Sturgeon and the rest of the SNP are angels.

I've just listened to the speech all the way through. A third of the way in she congratulates Ruth Davidson and the Scottish Tories for holding the SNP to account in Holyrood... something you and Delc bleat on about incessantly in the Brexit thread, i.e. the holding of a government to account.

She's also criticises the SNP for its blinkered one trick pony vision of independence, and its twisting of the truth.

I waited all through the speech for condescension and attacks similar to those Sturgeon and Salmond often spout. There wasn't one.

Where on earth is the evidence and facts to back up your criticism of her speech? C'mon, listen to it again on Youtube and detail the minute by minute criticisms, and I'll gladly listen to it again.

The truth is, like Sturgeon and Salmond, you see things that just aren't there because it suits your argument. You struggle to see around the chip on your shoulder, not that you even try.

In terms of an opposing politician at a party political conference I thought she was quite gentle, and also respectful of Scotland's achievements and history... but you didn't hear that did you because it doesn't suit your political stance as a nationalist and a Labour supporter.

 

[ColchesterFC]

May is a Tory leader telling lies and going back on her promises to Scotland.......what's new.

What lies is she telling and what promises has she gone back on?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Both you(SWILH) and Delc are deliberately choosing to mix differing situations. Scotland benefits from the Union, but the UK will not benefit from the EU as the trends in policy are evident to anyone with an ounce of analytic ability can see.

eh? No compreny

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

You obviously heard a different part of that programme than I did. The part I listened to was more along the lines of if England were (hypothetically) given a referendum on whether Scotland should stay or leave the UK, which way would it go. Not quite as emotive as your interpretation. There again, I didn't hear the end of the programme so you might have picked the right result

I never listened to it all either. But he opened up by asking the question 'why can't England just Kick -- Scotland -- Out'

I am not sure how that differs from England having a referendum on whether Scotland should leave (the UK)

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

And Sturgeon and the rest of the SNP are angels.

I've just listened to the speech all the way through. A third of the way in she congratulates Ruth Davidson and the Scottish Tories for holding the SNP to account in Holyrood... something you and Delc bleat on about incessantly in the Brexit thread, i.e. the holding of a government to account.

She's also criticises the SNP for its blinkered one trick pony vision of independence, and its twisting of the truth.

I waited all through the speech for condescension and attacks similar to those Sturgeon and Salmond often spout. There wasn't one.

Where on earth is the evidence and facts to back up your criticism of her speech? C'mon, listen to it again on Youtube and detail the minute by minute criticisms, and I'll gladly listen to it again.

The truth is, like Sturgeon and Salmond, you see things that just aren't there because it suits your argument. You struggle to see around the chip on your shoulder, not that you even try.

In terms of an opposing politician at a party political conference I thought she was quite gentle, and also respectful of Scotland's achievements and history... but you didn't hear that did you because it doesn't suit your political stance as a nationalist and a Labour supporter.

Her tone of delivery throughout was one of a school teacher admonishing a misbehaving child. Completely condescending. As it happens I rather like Ms Davidson - and she was a very strong, coherent and intelligent Remain supporter.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

What lies is she telling and what promises has she gone back on?

If you even have to ask that question, you really should not be debating on this thread.

 

[ColchesterFC]

If you even have to ask that question, you really should not be debating on this thread.

I wasn't debating anything, I was asking you a question that, for whatever reason, you seem reluctant to answer.