Increased distance - Golf Balls vs Club Technology?

[HawkeyeMS]

The game of golf seems to be contracting if anything, at least in the UK! Many golf clubs have gone under in the last two or three year, and many more are under threat. A lot of married men I know would like to play, but with 5 hour rounds becoming almost the norm, and expensive hi-tech golf clubs (the sort you hit the ball with) also becoming the norm, they just can't spare the time and the money!

5 hour rounds aren't the norm at our place, if they are at your place you need to sort your members out

 

[HawkeyeMS]

beginning to think this thread is a little pointless. Golf needs to move forward, not backward. Advancements in technology, materials and construction mean Golf is finally going places, despite some thinking it shouldn't. Let the game of Golf grow, and if it involves players being able to hit it 300 yards off the tee, then so be it. The amateur game is more like the ladies professional game anyway. The behemoths of the mens professional game have worked harder and harder to get where they are...so leave them to it.

You could have saved yourself time by simply typing...

"beginning to think this thread is a little pointless, it was started by delc"

 

[delc]

well yes and they work long hours because the working time directive is not enforced, the cost of living has gone up so brown nosing around the boss to keep ones job is required as is stabbing ones colleagues in the back etc... Yeah it's a great life for a forty something with kids, time for golf, no not really especially when the missus has to work as well and then there is child care. Does the family exist? Well the weekend is the only plausible time unless there is some brown nosing or back stabbing to be done.
The solution would be to shake the membership regime up, make all the retired golfers 5 day members, no weekend golf not even for a green fee, and thus free up the family men to get out for a quick 18 holes ... But that is radical!!

The vast majority of our retired senior members are 5-day members. I am a 7-day member, but generally only play in competitions at the weekend, or the occasional 9 holes late in the afternoon when the course is pretty empty anyway. I believe there is currently a waiting list for 5-day membership at our club anyway, so I can't change to that, even if I wanted to!

 

[HomerJSimpson]

The game of golf seems to be contracting if anything, at least in the UK! Many golf clubs have gone under in the last two or three year, and many more are under threat. A lot of married men I know would like to play, but with 5 hour rounds becoming almost the norm, and expensive hi-tech golf clubs (the sort you hit the ball with) also becoming the norm, they just can't spare the time and the money!

No five hour rounds at my place. Out of interest what do you play off. You said fifteen years ago hitting a 400+ yard par four in two was a rare feat and these days its a drive and a short iron. Excuse the cynicism but I doubt you hit it that far and I really think you need to find another game. There is obviously way too much wrong with the way the game is played, run and ruled. That or you are on a permanent fishing trip

 

[delc]

No five hour rounds at my place. Out of interest what do you play off. You said fifteen years ago hitting a 400+ yard par four in two was a rare feat and these days its a drive and a short iron. Excuse the cynicism but I doubt you hit it that far and I really think you need to find another game. There is obviously way too much wrong with the way the game is played, run and ruled. That or you are on a permanent fishing trip

I currently play off a handicap of 11/10.7 (up from a low of 10.2) and can drive the ball about 230 yards in the summer (200 yards in Winter conditions), which is not too bad for a 67 year old with dodgy knees and a bad back. I was much longer 20 years ago, but my handicap was 13 because I was somewhat wilder off the tee and only really played at weekends plus the odd summer evening. As a late teenager I got down to 6, but due to moving down to London and then getting married (twice, not at the same time), I didn't play again for about 20 years, my main sports being football, rugby, cricket and squash. Took up golf again when those sports became too energetic for me, and my mortgage was getting more affordable. Never found it quite so easy as the first time round (excuse the pun). :lol:

 

[palindromicbob]

beginning to think this thread is a little pointless. Golf needs to move forward, not backward. Advancements in technology, materials and construction mean Golf is finally going places, despite some thinking it shouldn't. Let the game of Golf grow, and if it involves players being able to hit it 300 yards off the tee, then so be it. The amateur game is more like the ladies professional game anyway. The behemoths of the mens professional game have worked harder and harder to get where they are...so leave them to it.

That bit bold is one of the most ridiculous things I've read on this thread and that's saying something.

 

[garyinderry]

That bit bold is one of the most ridiculous things I've read on this thread and that's saying something.

he is talking about distance they hit it.

 

[chrisd]

The game of golf seems to be contracting if anything, at least in the UK! Many golf clubs have gone under in the last two or three year, and many more are under threat. A lot of married men I know would like to play, but with 5 hour rounds becoming almost the norm, and expensive hi-tech golf clubs (the sort you hit the ball with) also becoming the norm, they just can't spare the time and the money!

I have never been near playing a 5 hour round in 15 years of membership at my place. Golf equipment can be bought for a skint these days, last year I bought a great set of Mizuno mp 67/57 combo clubs for £120 and a Ping g15 driver for £56 from Ebay they were all in pristine condition.

Golf clubs are struggling because of lack of disposable income generally, and the fact that most 35+ guys who might take it up! these days are paying a mortgage! got young kids and are working - a bit like my generation did in their early 20's. If golf clubs concentrated on the 50 year olds who would like to play the game but are self conscience about their lack of ability and cliquey golfers not accepting them in, I'm sure we would see greater numbers playing!

 

[palindromicbob]

he is talking about distance they hit it.

Even just considering distance the average on LPGA is 245. Compared to 208 for amateurs. It is the Cat 1 Male that comes up onto the level of LPGA driving distance averages and that isn't the biggest of groups.

 

[In_The_Rough]

he is talking about distance they hit it.

Even so I bet most LPGA players can outhit us amateurs. Not the forum members of course who can compete with the longest of hitters.

 

[delc]

Even just considering distance the average on LPGA is 245. Compared to 208 for amateurs. It is the Cat 1 Male that comes up onto the level of LPGA driving distance averages and that isn't the biggest of groups.

I go and watch at least one LET tournament per year, and the lady pros on that all hit impressively long drives with no apparent effort. I think you can learn a lot from watching them, because they generally rely on good timing and technique, rather than brute force.

 

[Foxholer]

That bit bold is one of the most ridiculous things I've read on this thread and that's saying something.

For better Ams, I'd agree with Wabinez, so not ridiculous at all. And for any reasonable Am aspiring to improve, I believe they be better to look at the swings of (most) Lady Tour Pros than those of the Tour men - who are generally much more athletic, flexible and fitter than Ams are ever likely to be!

I go and watch at least one LET tournament per year, and the lady pros on that all hit impressively long drives with no apparent effort. I think you can learn a lot from watching them, because they generally rely on good timing and technique, rather than brute force.

I appear to have finally got something right!:whoo:

 

[EuanRoss]

What was the thread about to start with again??

 

[delc]

What was the thread about to start with again??

Why driving distances have increased so much over the last 30 years.

 

[delc]

My brother in law came back from 8 years in Australia this year, he pulled out his old clubs and started playing with me. He is a natural ball striker but was unable to out drive me with his Callaway Steel head driver (not sure what model but 9.5*). He was constantly about 5 yards behind me. He did not like it, it was the first time in our lives this has been the case and I insisted that all my 460 was giving me was forgiveness and that I was now more of a man than him....

A kind member of this forum sold him some ugly Cobra driver(460) for very cheap money just to give him an idea. I don't think I have got many drives close to him since. He is a minimum of 10 yards ahead of my 95% of the time.


Clearly not an experiment but some what interesting.

Rather proves my point that if we went back to drivers with 200cc heads made of low cost steel, then driving distances would be reduced. I still have an old Callaway Steelhead driver and I can't hit the ball anything like as far with it as I can with my latest high tech adjustable Taylor Made R1.

P.S. I have just checked the specification of the Callaway Steelhead driver. It was made of stainless steel and had a head capacity of 205cc.

 

[delc]

Rather proves my point that if we went back to drivers with 200cc heads made of low cost steel, then driving distances would be reduced. I still have an old Callaway Steelhead driver and I can't hit the ball anything like as far with it as I can with my latest high tech adjustable Taylor Made R1.

P.S. I have just checked the specification of the Callaway Steelhead driver. It was made of stainless steel and had a head capacity of 205cc.

P.P.S. My Callaway Steelhead+ driver is fitted with a 44" firm flex graphite shaft, as compared with a 45.5" regular flex graphite shaft in my TM R1, which is another reason why it would hit the ball less far. My experience with it is that you are much more likely to hit miss-hits than with the R1, so you have to concentrate more on swinging accurately to find the centre of the club face, rather than just swinging hard to maximize distance.

 

[Slab]

But do we need/want driving distances reduced?

For 99% of players (official stat) its not really an issue that they can now hit an extra 20 yards compared to 15 years ago, is it?

The game cannot (& should not) be manipulated/amended for the 1% of players, whether that's technology, rules or physical course design/layout

 

[delc]

But do we need/want driving distances reduced?

For 99% of players (official stat) its not really an issue that they can now hit an extra 20 yards compared to 15 years ago, is it?

The game cannot (& should not) be manipulated/amended for the 1% of players, whether that's technology, rules or physical course design/layout

Less driving distance would reduce the need for mega long golf courses and the land area they waste, and the extra time it takes to walk round them.

The gain in driving distance since 1980 is about 30 yards, so that means that 30 yards should really be added to every par-4 and par-5 hole to make the course play as originally intended. Say 14 such holes, so that's at least an extra 420 yards that has to be added to the course. Probably more when you consider the extra distances fairway woods and hybrids can now hit the ball.

 

[Slab]

Less driving distance would reduce the need for mega long golf courses and the land area they waste, and the extra time it takes to walk round them.

But we (the 99%) are not playing mega long courses!



Edit: and we're not ripping up 6000 yard courses
we're not one putting every green
we're not driving 300 yrd par 4's
we're not hitting 80% FIR

You're trying to fix something that's not broken

 

[Slab]

The gain in driving distance since 1980 is about 30 yards, so that means that 30 yards should really be added to every par-4 and par-5 hole to make the course play as originally intended. Say 14 such holes, so that's at least an extra 420 yards that has to be added to the course. Probably more when you consider the extra distances fairway woods and hybrids can now hit the ball.

But the average punter has not increased by 30 yards its only about 6 IIRC (208yds V 202yds)

If one or more individuals are gaining distance in their lifelong pursuit to master this game then good on them. There are plenty of others just starting their love affair with the game that don't achieve those distances

It takes years for an individual to gain 30 yards and the point of golf has never been to penalise them when they achieve such a milestone

They (those improving) will also be getting a tighter dispersion should we also narrow every fairway?
Likely they will be getting better at bunker shots, lets take out half the sand, and a few more breaks on the greens with maybe a windmill or clowns head