Increased distance - Golf Balls vs Club Technology?

[chrisd]

In case I've missed anything Del

You want bigger holes to make putting easier

You want balls that go less far

You want smaller headed drivers

You don't want anyone lined up by their caddie

You want shorter courses

When most people make up their "bucket list" they usually put things like "a trip to Florida" on it and not a load of things to muck up everyone else's enjoyment of a sport.

When we've done 20 pages of this nonsense, give us a clue Del, which rule will be next to change or advancement to back pedal??

 

[delc]

In case I've missed anything Del

You want bigger holes to make putting easier

You want balls that go less far

You want smaller headed drivers

You don't want anyone lined up by their caddie

You want shorter courses

When most people make up their "bucket list" they usually put things like "a trip to Florida" on it and not a load of things to muck up everyone else's enjoyment of a sport.

When we've done 20 pages of this nonsense, give us a clue Del, which rule will be next to change or advancement to back pedal??

All of the above would speed up play, which is badly needed at all levels of golf! Once upon a time a round of golf took 3 hours, maybe three-and-a-half hours at most, but now 5 hours is not uncommon!

 

[Deleted member 15717]

All of the above would speed up play, which is badly needed at all levels of golf! Once upon a time a round of golf took 3 hours, maybe three-and-a-half hours at most, but now 5 hours is not uncommon!

Please say you have stats to back that up! Balls that don't go as far, coupled with smaller headed drivers which won't hit the ball as far = more shots taken. More shots taken = more time spent on the course. Unless you are also suggesting running between hitting the ball and where it has landed.

Also, in reference to my Ladies Pro comparison, I was referring to swing speeds, not necessarily distances.

 

[delc]

But we (the 99%) are not playing mega long courses!



Edit: and we're not ripping up 6000 yard courses
we're not one putting every green
we're not driving 300 yrd par 4's
we're not hitting 80% FIR

You're trying to fix something that's not broken

Again, once upon a time a 6000 yard course was considered a good test of golf. These days a pro or a scratch amateur would rip such a course apart as long as it's in good condition. They can rip our course apart and that's 6800 yards long off the back tees. To be considered worthy of championship status and to hold pro tournaments a course now has to be well over 7000 yards!

 

[delc]

Please say you have stats to back that up! Balls that don't go as far, coupled with smaller headed drivers which won't hit the ball as far = more shots taken. More shots taken = more time spent on the course. Unless you are also suggesting running between hitting the ball and where it has landed.

Also, in reference to my Ladies Pro comparison, I was referring to swing speeds, not necessarily distances.

Hitting shorter shots on a shorter course equals same number of shots and less walking required. Hence faster rounds!

 

[Slab]

All of the above would speed up play, which is badly needed at all levels of golf! Once upon a time a round of golf took 3 hours, maybe three-and-a-half hours at most, but now 5 hours is not uncommon!

You know in one sense you are right, if the game of golf was invented tomorrow (lets call it Bolf) we wouldn't use a piece of drainage pipe to determine the hole size, we wouldn't even be playing a round over 18 holes, we wouldn't have 14 as the number of clubs and a hundred other things would also change... but a round would still take the time taken for the slowest group to get round, some would think it fast, others that its too slow... and then there would be an online discussion about how to change this new game of Bolf and make it faster/slower/easier/harder/fairer!

 

[Imurg]

Rather proves my point that if we went back to drivers with 200cc heads made of low cost steel, then driving distances would be reduced. I still have an old Callaway Steelhead driver and I can't hit the ball anything like as far with it as I can with my latest high tech adjustable Taylor Made R1.

P.S. I have just checked the specification of the Callaway Steelhead driver. It was made of stainless steel and had a head capacity of 205cc.

There's a 1960's Austin for sale around the corner from me. Want to trade in for it.....?
Average increases in distances hit by REAL people have barely increased - what was it, 202 - 208 or something..
Forget the Pro game.
This is Club Golf
There is no argument for this....
Until the average amateur is hitting 400 yard par 4's with a drive and a flick with a wedge.....

 

[Slab]

Again, once upon a time a 6000 yard course was considered a good test of golf. These days a pro or a scratch amateur would rip such a course apart as long as it's in good condition. They can rip our course apart and that's 6800 yards long off the back tees. To be considered worthy of championship status and to hold pro tournaments a course now has to be well over 7000 yards!

But again Del, this is for the tiny minority, for the rest of us the game is fine, the course is a good length as it is.

Yes a pro tour player can come rip it up all they like, it wont change how I (& most others) play the course though!

 

[delc]

You know in one sense you are right, if the game of golf was invented tomorrow (lets call it Bolf) we wouldn't use a piece of drainage pipe to determine the hole size, we wouldn't even be playing a round over 18 holes, we wouldn't have 14 as the number of clubs and a hundred other things would also change... but a round would still take the time taken for the slowest group to get round, some would think it fast, others that its too slow... and then there would be an online discussion about how to change this new game of Bolf and make it faster/slower/easier/harder/fairer!

As you say, we probably wouldn't start from here if re-inventing the game of golf.

 

[Slab]

As you say, we probably wouldn't start from here if re-inventing the game of golf.

Erm I think you'll find its called Bolfâ„¢ now

 

[delc]

There's a 1960's Austin for sale around the corner from me. Want to trade in for it.....?
Average increases in distances hit by REAL people have barely increased - what was it, 202 - 208 or something..
Forget the Pro game.
This is Club Golf
There is no argument for this....
Until the average amateur is hitting 400 yard par 4's with a drive and a flick with a wedge.....

A 1960's Austin would have had a top speed of about 75 mph. Most modern cars are capable of at least 100mph if the law permitted that.

 

[Imurg]

A 1960's Austin would have had a top speed of about 75 mph. Most modern cars are capable of at least 100mph if the law permitted that.

Exactly.
You want to go back to the bygone times of smaller drivers, less distance hit when in reality they have made little difference to scores.
Your argument? - Courses are being overpowered.
By whom?

Professionals and Elite Amateurs.
Your average Joe? Not in a million years.

Put up a Poll.
"Would you like to see Amateur driving distance reduced" and see how many want that......

 

[chrisd]

All of the above would speed up play, which is badly needed at all levels of golf! Once upon a time a round of golf took 3 hours, maybe three-and-a-half hours at most, but now 5 hours is not uncommon!

5 hours is uncommon. I said earlier that I've never had a 5 hour round, not even at West Hill in the H4H forum meet with 103 players!

Again, once upon a time a 6000 yard course was considered a good test of golf. These days a pro or a scratch amateur would rip such a course apart as long as it's in good condition. They can rip our course apart and that's 6800 yards long off the back tees. To be considered worthy of championship status and to hold pro tournaments a course now has to be well over 7000 yards!

My course is 6200 yards approx. and no one rips it up, I think that the course record is 64 (par 71)!

Where courses are 7000 yards its rare that the members play off the back tees at all. When we had a forum meet at Chart Hills recently we were given the option of tees to play from and we chose the 2nd furthest back, the blues and never seriously considered using the Championship tees.

 

[Slab]

For many years I used to visit Knockhill racing circuit in Fife ( relatively small track compared to many and tiny compared to Silverstone

I enjoyed it thoroughly

One weekend they brought out a F1 car for a display (on old arrows or footwork or something by lets say it was comparable to a Bubba Watson playing your course)

Naturally it annihilated the lap record by many seconds!

Did Knockhill cease to be fit for purpose? Do they still have competitive racing there?

Its a cracking little track that knows its limitations and doesn't pretend to be something its not and highly enjoyed by drivers... just like most golf courses compared to the 7000 yard tournament venues

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Again, once upon a time a 6000 yard course was considered a good test of golf. These days a pro or a scratch amateur would rip such a course apart as long as it's in good condition. They can rip our course apart and that's 6800 yards long off the back tees. To be considered worthy of championship status and to hold pro tournaments a course now has to be well over 7000 yards!

We held an amateur event at my club last year. Some of the best players in Berkshire played and many were way over par. It is only 6400 off the whites and conditions were benign. You don't need monster courses to produce good tests. Your argument is flawed as none of us are pros (a couple of exceptions apart) and we're not scratch amateurs (again certain low handicappers on here excepted) and for the the remainder, we rarely rip our own curse to bits on a frequent basis. Even oon badly run pay and play, I've rarely experienced five hour rounds. It's unheard of at my club and even a four hour round is considered disappointing.

 

[EuanRoss]

Until the average amateur is hitting 400 yard par 4's with a drive and a flick with a wedge.....

I once hit our 440 yd 12th with a drive and a half sw. I'll just ignore the fact that it took me driver, 3 iron, full pitching wedge to hit the 440 yd 11th that runs in the opposite direction. I think they call that a hoolie.

Del, I'm sure you passionately believe in the ways that golf can be changed but give it a rest. You contradict yourself so many times and at others, just talk nonsense. I'm pretty sure smaller headed drivers are less forgiving, meaning more mis-hits, meaning more time spent looking for balls, meaning golf takes longer.

Do you seriously believe that if driving distance dropped by 30 yards and average iron shots dropped by 15 yards, due to restrictions in technology that golf clubs up and down the land would be rushing to build 18 new sets of tees to make their courses 500 - 1000 yards shorter??? I don't know what the financial situation is for clubs in your world but it would bankrupt most up here. So then you just end up on the same tees, with poorer equipment, which guess what, will take longer.

As for 5-hour rounds, I've just dug out my scorecard for the Old Course at St. Andrews. The MAXIMUM time for a 4-ball is 3hrs 57mins.

 

[BTatHome]

If my driver was restricted was lose 30 yards, then I'd dump it and be using my 3 wood 100% of the time :ears:

 

[Foxholer]

Again, once upon a time a 6000 yard course was considered a good test of golf. These days a pro or a scratch amateur would rip such a course apart as long as it's in good condition. They can rip our course apart and that's 6800 yards long off the back tees. To be considered worthy of championship status and to hold pro tournaments a course now has to be well over 7000 yards!

Complete Twaddle - perhaps (but I doubt) your course apart. I strongly doubt they are 'ripping it apart' and, if they are, it's because they are really rather good (as in 'play a different game!)! What's the Pro Course Record there? and SSS off the backs? To be a successful top level Pro they need to be shooting more than 5 or 6 under consistently round their home club and that has always been the case - that's what the likes of Woosnam and Boxall were doing 25-30 years ago (pre ERC days).

And there are much more effective ways to limit the effect of inevitable improvement in distances - that are nowhere near as significant now as they were 20 years ago! Anyone who played West Hill would have seen how effective Heather, or equivalent, can be in designing a course that will endure. Last Year's US Open at Merion is probably the best example - less than 7000 yds and nobody ripped that apart - it destroyed most of them!

I takes about 3-4 minutes to walk 400yds, so it's not simply length that causes significantly longer rounds.

Stop trying to restrict everybody else to make up for your inadequacy! Get out, practice and improve!

 

[delc]

Does hitting the ball an extra 30 yards really make golf a more pleasurable sport? I would suggest not as it is all relative. As a late teenager I could hit the ball about 250 yards with a wooden headed driver and that was considered quite long at the time. The course I played on was well under 6000 yards. Rounds were just as much fun and a lot quicker!

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Does hitting the ball an extra 30 yards really make golf a more pleasurable sport? I would suggest not as it is all relative. As a late teenager I could hit the ball about 250 yards with a wooden headed driver and that was considered quite long at the time. The course I played on was well under 6000 yards. Rounds were just as much fun and a lot quicker!

250 yards is quite long now del.