Increased distance - Golf Balls vs Club Technology?

[delc]

First of all, golf balls have been limited for initial velocity and overall distance from a calibrated testing robot for some years now, so balls have to conform to these limits and other test parameters to be on the approved ball list. See:

http://www.randa.org/en/Equipment/Protocols-and-Procedures/Balls/Overall-Distance.aspx

Since the 1960's average driving distances on the Men's Pro Tours has gone up from a tad over 250 yards to almost 290 yards. If it's not the balls, it has to be the clubs. Longer graphite shafts, larger aerodynamically shaped heads and hot faces. Therefore modern 'championship' courses now have to be well over 7000 yards long to be a reasonable test, as compared to 6000 yards in the old days. Hence slower rounds and more land area required for a golf course. Many traditional old golf courses have been reduced to almost pitch and putts. Once upon a time any par-4 over 400 yards was a monster, now we have 500 yard par-4's!

So to get things back into perspective, we either have to further restrict the ball or limit the club technology.

The following report is also interesting reading:

http://www.pgatour.com/content/dam/pgatour/docs/pdf/2013/10/01/rutgers.pdf

One of the conclusions is that golf now favours bigger and stronger people, as they can get the best out of the modern technology.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

First of all, golf balls have been limited for initial velocity and overall distance from a calibrated testing robot for some years now, so ball have to conform to these limits and other test parameters to be on the approved ball list. See:

http://www.randa.org/en/Equipment/Protocols-and-Procedures/Balls/Overall-Distance.aspx

Since the 1960's average driving distances on the Men's Pro Tours has gone up from a tad over 250 yards to almost 290 yards. If it's not the balls, it has to be the clubs. Longer graphite shafts, larger aerodynamically shaped heads and hot faces. Therefore modern 'championship' courses now have to be well over 7000 yards long to be a reasonable test, as compared to 6000 yards in the old days. Hence slower rounds and more land area required for a golf course. Many traditional old golf courses have been reduced to almost pitch and putts. Once upon a time any par-4 over 400 yards was a monster, now we have 500 yard par-4's!

So to get things back into perspective, we either have to further restrict the ball or limit the club technology.

The following report is also interesting reading:

http://www.pgatour.com/content/dam/pgatour/docs/pdf/2013/10/01/rutgers.pdf

One of the conclusions is that golf now favours bigger and stronger people, as they can get the best out of the modern technology.

Oh god, here we go, DelC's campaign of the week is upon us.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Since the 1960's average driving distances on the Men's Pro Tours has gone up from a tad over 250 yards to almost 290 yards. If it's not the balls, it has to be the clubs..

One of the conclusions is that golf now favours bigger and stronger people, as they can get the best out of the modern technology

What about the increase in athleticism of the golfers? I am guessing the average pro now would hit the ball further than the average pro in the 60s using the same equipment and balls. Most sports have always favoured bigger and stronger people.

As for the rest it's called progress. Other than the drug assisted female athletics records set in the past, I would image every sport has got faster, longer, bigger, more accurate over time.

 

[Waitforme]

Those links were interesting reading Delc, thanks.

I don't know why they don't introduce a ball for pros that brings their driving distance back to say 260.

 

[pbrown7582]

Those links were interesting reading Delc, thanks.

I don't know why they don't introduce a ball for pros that brings their driving distance back to say 260.

Bi-unification and the all out resisitance to it.

 

[One Planer]

One of the conclusions is that golf now favours bigger and stronger people, as they can get the best out of the modern technology.

Really?

Ryo Ishikawa weighs 155lb, or in real money, 11st 7lb. He currently sits at 17th on the PGA Tours driving stats at 301 yards.

Morgan Hoffman is 12st 8lb and sits 14th at 302 yards.

Sean O'Hair is another at 11st 7lb and he sits at 4th

Or how about a crowd favorite Bubba Watson. 12st 8lb. Currently 2nd in driving distance at 309 yards.

I would counter that weight (Size) is nothing to do with hitting it long. The PGA stats' support that.

http://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.101.html

 

[Deleted member 15717]

Why should golf be pulled back from where it is? If that is the case, why not make all F1 cars use 1.2 diesel engines found in your standard Corsa? Sounds stupid doesn't it.

Golf rewards those who work hardest on and off the course. If players are required to be "bigger and stronger people, as they can get the best out of the modern technology" then get to the gym and make the best out of the equipment that is being released. I'm all for Pro's courses being 7000 odd yards, my only gripe would be to make them tighter so it isn't just a bombers paradise. Let's be honest as well, members/guests tees aren't going to be in the same position as the pro tees, so the course will be reduced substantially when us mortals play it, or if they aren't, then par will be changed accordingly.

 

[delc]

Bi-unification and the all out resisitance to it.

Apparently long hitting male pros benefit more from modern three-piece balls and hi-tech clubs than do shorter hitting ladies and amateurs who would not lose that much length. Therefore there may not be any need for bifurcation if golf balls were to be more restricted.

 

[delc]

Really?

Ryo Ishikawa weighs 155lb, or in real money, 11st 7lb. He currently sits at 17th on the PGA Tours driving stats at 301 yards.

Morgan Hoffman is 12st 8lb and sits 14th at 302 yards.

Sean O'Hair is another at 11st 7lb and he sits at 4th

Or how about a crowd favorite Bubba Watson. 12st 8lb. Currently 2nd in driving distance at 309 yards.

I would counter that weight (Size) is nothing to do with hitting it long. The PGA stats' support that.

http://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.101.html

Said players are fairly tall and very fit. Being a big heavy lump of lard doesn't count!

 

[Twire]

I'm beginning to wonder why you play this game Del, you seem to want to change everything from rules to equipment.

 

[chrisd]

So to get things back into perspective, we either have to further restrict the ball or limit the club technology

Or just leave things as they are, accept that there's no real problem, accept that all sports move forward and just enjoy the game!

 

[Hacker Khan]

Also what percentage of rounds by amateurs are being played on these championship courses that are apparently having to be lengthened to cope with pros? 1% at most? So how much of the fact that championship courses are being lengthened is actually an issue to the vast majority of amateurs that play the game?

And as Wab says, if you do happen to be playing on a lengthened course that will beat you up as an amateur then use a forward tee.

 

[palindromicbob]

Those links were interesting reading Delc, thanks.

I don't know why they don't introduce a ball for pros that brings their driving distance back to say 260.

Do we really want to see bifurication of the sport? Consider limits certainly but apply them across the field.

The beauty of this game is the fact we mere mortals can go out and play pretty much identical conditions to the pro's (arguably a little tougher because we don't have crowds tramping down the rough when we've gone off line). We can play the same surface, from the same tees, with the same equipment if means allow it. No other major sport offers this.

.

 

[delc]

Why should golf be pulled back from where it is? If that is the case, why not make all F1 cars use 1.2 diesel engines found in your standard Corsa? Sounds stupid doesn't it.

Golf rewards those who work hardest on and off the course. If players are required to be "bigger and stronger people, as they can get the best out of the modern technology" then get to the gym and make the best out of the equipment that is being released. I'm all for Pro's courses being 7000 odd yards, my only gripe would be to make them tighter so it isn't just a bombers paradise. Let's be honest as well, members/guests tees aren't going to be in the same position as the pro tees, so the course will be reduced substantially when us mortals play it, or if they aren't, then par will be changed accordingly.

Formula 1 has specified smaller and smaller engines over the years to be safer and more eco-friendly. For this year the engines have been reduced from 2.4 litres to1.6 litres.

 

[delc]

Or just leave things as they are, accept that there's no real problem, accept that all sports move forward and just enjoy the game!

You seem to be very fond of the status quo chrisd!

 

[BTatHome]

I would suggest the ability to hit the ball with better stats that those in the testing phase is a big difference. The tests themselves are not really relevant to a real person swinging a club and so it's hardly surprising that players are getting better at fitting a ball/club to the required trajectory and so increasing distances this way.

 

[chrisd]

Formula 1 has specified smaller and smaller engines over the years to be safer and more eco-friendly. For this year the engines have been reduced from 2.4 litres to1.6 litres.

Formula 1 has to continually make seemingly retrograde changes to allow the less well off teams to remain competitive, otherwise, just a very few teams who can chuck vast amounts of money at the sport, would ensure that the minnows wouldn't be able to race anymore. Golf is quite different and cant be compared.

 

[guest100718]

Formula 1 has specified smaller and smaller engines over the years to be safer and more eco-friendly. For this year the engines have been reduced from 2.4 litres to1.6 litres.

Smaller engines yes, but they still go like **** off a shovel.

 

[chrisd]

You seem to be very fond of the status quo chrisd!

That's quite a wrong assumption Del!

I am happy with the game as it stands, which means the year on year advancements and changes which are regulated by the R & A and USGA. so I'm promoting anything other than the status quo as, in my view, everything does change and continues to do so.

You, however, seem to want to continually offer proposed rule changes to, on one hand make the game easier by enlarging the holes and on the other hand, harder by restricting ball flight or club technology ..... unless I'm missing something, isn't it you wanting the status quo on this particular issue as you want the golf world to stand still?

 

[EuanRoss]

That's exactly what I was away to say Chris. You can't want the technology to be crap so the scores are higher at the same time as wanting a bigger hole so scoring is lower.