I played today and..(Rolling) -originally created by JohnnyDee

[Orikoru]

even under the old system if SSS (CSS) was less than par you would need more than 36 points to play to your handicap, so it is not WHS that is causing this to happen, it just maybe causes it to happen at more courses than it used to

I think the difference was far less pronounced in the old system, although I could be wrong. Playing off yellows for handicap purposes is obviously a total waste of time anyway so I suppose we'll stop bothering with that now.

 

[Bdill93]

I dunno, I was hoping to shoot 80 yesterday as I thought that would be decent enough, but on reflection it probably wasn't. Having only broken 80 for the first time two months ago, I now need to break 80 every single week in order to get my handicap down. Tough crowd.

Im the same now, at 15.2 and a gross 80 is only 11.9 diff. So any cut will come from scores under 82 and nothing else.

But - our courses ratings suggest its not that hard to achieve and if you were playing elsewhere, it would certainly be a trickier course.

Stableford points just arent accurate for handicapping purposes on courses with a CR below par.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I think the difference was far less pronounced in the old system, although I could be wrong. Playing off yellows for handicap purposes is obviously a total waste of time anyway so I suppose we'll stop bothering with that now.

Or how about because it’s the easier course you should be able to play better on the easier course - that’s how it works ?

 

[Jimaroid]

If you beat your handicap, your handicap should go down.

What do you think should happen when you don't beat your handicap?

 

[Orikoru]

Or how about because it’s the easier course you should be able to play better on the easier course - that’s how it works ?

You're not understanding what I'm saying. That's fine but to my mind the course or playing handicap should match the score differentials then. If my course is that much easier then why isn't my course handicap off yellows just 12 or something instead of 14? Then it would be easier to understand wouldn't it. When WHS came in I liked the idea of a varying handicap for easier and harder courses. But to my mind it's not all matching up properly. If the score differential is telling me I need to shoot 11 over to beat my handicap, then my course handicap should be 11. Then it makes sense.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

You're not understanding what I'm saying. That's fine but to my mind the course or playing handicap should match the score differentials then. If my course is that much easier then why isn't my course handicap off yellows just 12 or something instead of 14? Then it would be easier to understand wouldn't it. When WHS came in I liked the idea of a varying handicap for easier and harder courses. But to my mind it's not all matching up properly. If the score differential is telling me I need to shoot 11 over to beat my handicap, then my course handicap should be 11. Then it makes sense.

That’s the issue - your mind as been shown a number of times in regards Golf rules and regulations isn’t correct

You can either just put your card in and let the system do the work or you can actually investigate and read the full WHS breakdown and then gain full understanding as opposed to what you think it should be

 

[Orikoru]

That’s the issue - your mind as been shown a number of times in regards Golf rules and regulations isn’t correct

You can either just put your card in and let the system do the work or you can actually investigate and read the full WHS breakdown and then gain full understanding as opposed to what you think it should be

This is not a case of correct and incorrect, it's just in my opinion a bit of a baffling system that's all.

 

[Springveldt]

Looking at it logically - the algorithm or whatever tells me I get 14 shots for my round off the yellows. I get 36 points so I played to handicap. Then it tells me, no, you actually played to 17 not 14. I just don't see how it makes any sense that's all. To be honest I think it's better if I go back to not putting cards in and just do it for competitions. I liked it better when I didn't think about it as much.

I think the confusion comes from stableford being against par but WHS is actually against course rating and slope. If you re-adjust your stableford to against the course rating it will probably be closer.

Just had a look and Grim's Dyke, for some reason there are 2 ratings for the yellow, 66.2 or 65.6. Compare your score to them, not 68. The slope is actually less than 113 so the 17 differential makes sense as your differential will actually go up compared to your score due to the slope being less than 113.

I dunno, I was hoping to shoot 80 yesterday as I thought that would be decent enough, but on reflection it probably wasn't. Having only broken 80 for the first time two months ago, I now need to break 80 every single week in order to get my handicap down. Tough crowd.

Based on the course rating and the slope, especially off the yellow's then yes, you will need to shoot under 80 to get under 14. It's just rated as a very easy course. You need to start thinking of par being 65 when you play off the yellows.

With the white's you will be under 14 if you shoot 80 or below as it's 66.5/115.

 

[Orikoru]

I think the confusion comes from stableford being against par but WHS is actually against course rating and slope. If you re-adjust your stableford to against the course rating it will probably be closer.

Just had a look and Grim's Dyke, for some reason there are 2 ratings for the yellow, 66.2 or 65.6. Compare your score to them, not 68. The slope is actually less than 113 so the 17 differential makes sense as your differential will actually go up compared to your score due to the slope being less than 113.


Based on the course rating and the slope, especially off the yellow's then yes, you will need to shoot under 80 to get under 14. It's just rated as a very easy course. You need to start thinking of par being 65 when you play off the yellows.

With the white's you will be under 14 if you shoot 80 or below as it's 66.5/115.

Thanks for that. The low course rating is maddening - tee to green I agree it's pretty easy, but our greens are fast and there's only two flat-ish ones on the course. Rarely ever an easy two-putt. I feel like green difficulty is pretty much ignored in the ratings. (To explain the two course ratings, one of our short par 4s has currently been shortened to a par 3 because of concerns from balls going over the right hand fence towards the road. Eventually they'll be making a different par 3 longer to compensate, but for now we've just been re-rated to allow for the shorter hole. Making it even more of a pain.)

 

[Jimaroid]

This is not a case of correct and incorrect, it's just in my opinion a bit of a baffling system that's all.

It's not a matter of opinion though, you've 100% got the concept in the maths wrong.

There are two number lines and you're applying the rules from one numberline (the stableford scores) to the rules of the other number line (the course handicap with slope) but they are not equivalent.

edit: Springveldt says the same thing differently

 

[SteveW86]

Shall we add PCC into the mix to make this even more confusing

 

[Springveldt]

Played Torwoodlee Golf Course just outside of Galashiels on Saturday. First society meet up since before covid so it was the first time I had seen a few of the lads since then. Handicaps hadn't been adjusted in the society and I was due to get 12 shots. Told my cousin who runs it to cut me to my handicap of 6 since it was totally unfair as most of the lads are recreational golfers, it's rare the winning net score in this society is under par as most are there just to have a drink and a laugh.

Ended up shooting 74 for a net 68 and finished 2nd. The winner had a net 66 and it was the first time he had won since joining the society 12 years ago so I was happy I didn't rob him of his first win. Overall had a great day, only thing was I couldn't have a drink since I just drove up to meet them (Galashiels is nearly half way between my house and Glasgow so no point driving all the way up there to get the bus down with them), so the last hour before the bus took them away was a bit rough with all 11 of them hammered talking nonsense.

Best part of the day was when I doubled 17 (was 1 under on the back 9 to that point) and I kicked my trolley wheel as we walked off and one of my playing partners said "It's not the trolleys fault, it's just carrying your clubs for you". I burst out laughing at that one and it got my mind right for the 18th tee shot. Normally I'd still have been fizzing on the tee box and smacked it OB or something.

 

[Springveldt]

Shall we add PCC into the mix to make this even more confusing

What's that? Mine always says 0.

 

[Oddsocks]

Doubles k/o rd 1 and stiffed our opponents 6&4. We had some big wins last year up to the semifinal where we went to four extra holes so that result will spread like wild fire.

 

[PNWokingham]

Yeah, I know. Stupid isn't it?

no. it is not stupid. Do you want to go and play off the backs at Royal St George's 7300 yards and expect to get the same shots as off the yellows at your course!!?

 

[Orikoru]

no. it is not stupid. Do you want to go and play off the backs at Royal St George's 7300 yards and expect to get the same shots as off the yellows at your course!!?

If you'd have followed the rest of the discussion before leaping in to spout your nonsense you'd have seen that I said I was a fan of the fact you get different shots at different courses. It's just a problem our course has been stitched up given that they ignore green difficulty in the ratings.

 

[Bdill93]

Thanks for that. The low course rating is maddening - tee to green I agree it's pretty easy, but our greens are fast and there's only two flat-ish ones on the course. Rarely ever an easy two-putt. I feel like green difficulty is pretty much ignored in the ratings. (To explain the two course ratings, one of our short par 4s has currently been shortened to a par 3 because of concerns from balls going over the right hand fence towards the road. Eventually they'll be making a different par 3 longer to compensate, but for now we've just been re-rated to allow for the shorter hole. Making it even more of a pain.)

You get 2 putts on every hole in the world - Sawgrass, The Old Course or the local Muni. I dont know how courses are rated, but greens cant be where you are losing strokes on your CR?

 

[PNWokingham]

If you'd have followed the rest of the discussion before leaping in to spout your nonsense you'd have seen that I said I was a fan of the fact you get different shots at different courses. It's just a problem our course has been stitched up given that they ignore green difficulty in the ratings.

the only spouter of nonesense is the one you look at in the mirror. Now you are trying to justify your view because your course iw rating incorrectly. You have had lots of people waste time giving you the rationale but you still cannot accept it. What a load of old horlicks.

 

[Mike79]

I don’t get this WHS. Pre-kids I was a 9 handicap. I played pretty close to no golf for 13 years and have got back into it again this year as joined a club in Feb. Playing inconsistently - some great, some shocking. I’ve done well in recent club competitions; 3rd, 2nd, 3rd, 1st, 2nd.

Going into this weekend I was 19.9 handicap. 2 day event, 95% handicap. yesterday I was +2 net, today -4 net so came 2nd at -2 net overall.

Handicap went UP to 20.2. I was expecting / hoping for a bit of a reduction.

I’m already hearing the “bandit” phrase and am submitting the score after every round. The last month or so it’s all been competitions or medals.

So there is a days lag on the EG app. Yesterdays increase was related to Saturdays +2. Todays cut was based on yesterdays -4. Handicap down to 18.7 today

 

[PNWokingham]

So there is a days lag on the EG app. Yesterdays increase was related to Saturdays +2. Todays cut was based on yesterdays -4. Handicap down to 18.7 today

the handicap may have nothing to do with the latest round or two - it is average of best 8 of last 20.