I Know it is Tradition but it is Still Annoying

[Imurg]

I would just wonder what would happen in reality if, say, Thecraw was on the tee and the Captain wandered along and very nicely said that the rules had been changed recently and he had priority on the tee and wished to exercise that right. I lay a pound to a penny he would meekly stand aside and all the bluff and bluster would quickly be forgotten!
Chris

I think to be fair,Chris, the vast majority - in the situation you've painted - would stand aside. The whole (initial) argument was the way in which Greg's Captain did what he did.
If this rule is in place at a club - no idea at mine and don't even know the Captain's name - then I'd expect the Captain to have achieved a higher level of manners than shown to Greg. Blustering onto the tee, demanding to play through just isn't fair - tradition or not. If the Captain has the Member's interests at heart surely he should be letting others play first? If there is no rule to this effect then a polite request may still work.
Showing courtesy to the Captain - fine, but the Captain has to show courtesy to his Members too.

Anyway, cracking thread
Bit early but anyone for a G&T..? The Sun must be over the Yardarm somewhere...

 

[chrisd]

I think to be fair,Chris, the vast majority - in the situation you've painted - would stand aside. The whole (initial) argument was the way in which Greg's Captain did what he did.
If this rule is in place at a club - no idea at mine and don't even know the Captain's name - then I'd expect the Captain to have achieved a higher level of manners than shown to Greg. Blustering onto the tee, demanding to play through just isn't fair - tradition or not. If the Captain has the Member's interests at heart surely he should be letting others play first? If there is no rule to this effect then a polite request may still work.
Showing courtesy to the Captain - fine, but the Captain has to show courtesy to his Members too.

Anyway, cracking thread
Bit early but anyone for a G&T..? The Sun must be over the Yardarm somewhere...

You are spot on Imurg but I was working from changes in the mood that came fairly early on, moving from the manner in which his Captain asked to a more general view of some peoples refusal to follow the tradition at all as they didn't agree with it, so it didn't apply to them stance!


Chris

 

[brendy]

One interesting question I have been meaning to ask is whether any of the traditional guys use GPS?

Also, I wear cargo type trousers on the golf course and have done at plenty of swanky courses this past couple of years without incident.

 

[Dodger]

Is it tradition to put your name at the end of your post too?

 

[MashieNiblick]

Chris

I confess I wasn't aware of all the little rules and protocols and things when I joined my club but you learn as you go. If it had turned out that I didn't like these or the people who made them up and enforced them and it was clear they weren't going to change I would have to make a decision about whether to grin and bear it, try to change it or join another club. No club is perfect but we balance the good with the not so good. We've had a few join our club with dreadful stories of how their previous place was run by self appointed cliques to the deteriment of the rest of the members. It happens and maybe when it does we need someone to stand up and say it's not right.

Not all of golf's "traditions" are good ones after all. I always love the story of how Edward VIII when Prince of Wales played at a posh club with Walter Hagen and was informed that Hagen couldn't join the Prince in the bar afterwards as he was a professional. Did the Prince accept that? No. He told the club either Walter comes in to the bar or the club no longer has "Royal" in it's name. I think the Prince and Walter had their drink together.

 

[Scouser]

Are most clubs not members clubs that have AGMs where constitutions and rules can be voted on ...

If so this would suggest that people are happy with the rules that are laid down and choose the clubs because it fits thir own style... Or to lazy or not bothered to do anything about it

 

[chrisd]

Chris

I confess I wasn't aware of all the little rules and protocols and things when I joined my club but you learn as you go. If it had turned out that I didn't like these or the people who made them up and enforced them and it was clear they weren't going to change I would have to make a decision about whether to grin and bear it, try to change it or join another club. No club is perfect but we balance the good with the not so good. We've had a few join our club with dreadful stories of how their previous place was run by self appointed cliques to the deteriment of the rest of the members. It happens and maybe when it does we need someone to stand up and say it's not right.

Not all of golf's "traditions" are good ones after all. I always love the story of how Edward VIII when Prince of Wales played at a posh club with Walter Hagen and was informed that Hagen couldn't join the Prince in the bar afterwards as he was a professional. Did the Prince accept that? No. He told the club either Walter comes in to the bar or the club no longer has "Royal" in it's name. I think the Prince and Walter had their drink together.

Ah Mashie but at least he gave them a choice.

I wholeheartedly agree that changes need to be made sometimes and there is a mechanism for that in all clubs - my position on here is to be against the " I don't agree with the rule so I won't do it " mentality.

I have said that my own club had a number of questionable "rules" a few years back, but times have changed, faces have changed and those rules have now gone and things are run much more in a modern way, but those changes were done democratically.

Chris

 

[rosecott]

We've had a few join our club with dreadful stories of how their previous place was run by self appointed cliques to the deteriment of the rest of the members.

How can they be self-appointed? Surely there is an annual opportunity at the AGM to make sure that these cliques do not self-perpetuate. It smacks a little of cowardice just to up sticks and move to another club.

 

[richart]

Over the past two years, I have been lucky enough to have been invited to a couple of charity days at Bearwood Lakes (thanks Paul!). Dress code for the evenings celebrations has been "smart casual". It was nice not to have to wear a collar and tie, a smart pair of trousers/chinos and an open necked, collared shirt were order of the day. Some guys still took it upon themselves to come dressed up in suits and ties etc. but it was their choice. The ladies still looked on it as an opportunity to dress up. Nice.
When we go to play at Cooden each year on our forum meet, the dress code for the evening meal is collar and tie. We know that before we go, so we wear it. It is their "tradition"...we want to play their course, we want to enjoy their hospitality, we abide by their "rules". If you don't like it, don't attend. Simples.
So I am prepared to "give and take" to a certain extent.
But I cannot abide seeing jeans worn on a golf course. Or cargo shorts. Or T-shirts. Or shirts un-tucked. I hate all of these things with a passion when seen in the vicinity of a golf course.

Everybody is entitled to their opinion, and our club is in the Bearwood Lakes camp. Some traditions such as jacket and tie have been removed, but others regarding jeans and t-shirts have been kept. The club is trying to satisfy the majority, not the minority. As Smiffy says if you don't like the rules find another club. I for one am happy with just the way it is, as we seem to have find the middle ground that appeals to most.

 

[Hobbit]

I disappear for just over a day and there's another 14 pages to read! Brilliant thread. Had a quick skim through of what I'd missed and its great to see there is some tolerance of differing opinions and choices appearing. Equally, there's the odd "I won't, I won't, I won't," probably followed by a good foot stamp. Laughed my socks off with some of them.

To those that feel respect must be earned, if someone who'd never met you came up to and treated you like ..... you'd kick off. Everyone should have a level of respect afforded to them and whether that goes up or down depends on their behaviour - no one starts at a base level and must earn every ounce.

Respecting a position, e.g. do you respect your GP, local bobby or Lord Mayor. That's a little bit tougher to quantify but reading some of the posts there appears to be some who whether through a subconcious level of insecurity or inverted snobbishness refuse to recognise the efforts of others even when the majority do.

Respecting a tradition; to me this is more about what the majority agree to, and in effect sign up to, when an individual joins an organisation/club. How someone deals with a tradition or rule they disagree with is a greater measure of the individual. I have the utmost respect for someone who follows the rule but works within the rules to change it rather than the foot stamper who basically says stuff you.

Then there's the committee that blindly enforces the rules/traditions. Sometimes a blind eye for an archaic rule or tradition until it can be changed at an AGM is the best way forward. "Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the adherence of fools."

 

[richart]

Is it tradition to put your name at the end of your post too?

I like it, as it is nice to be able to refer to someone by name, rather than by an avatar.

Rich (oops forgot)

 

[chrisd]

Is it tradition to put your name at the end of your post too?

Yes, but it's not a rule!


Chris

 

[Snelly]

I only do it to annoy you Dodger.

Kind regards,


Snelly.

 

[bladeplayer]

Are most clubs not members clubs that have AGMs where constitutions and rules can be voted on ...

If so this would suggest that people are happy with the rules that are laid down and choose the clubs because it fits thir own style... Or to lazy or not bothered to do anything about it

Its not a rule Scouser its a tradition ..

 

[Dodger]

I only do it to annoy you Dodger.

Kind regards,


Snelly.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Dodger. (sticking with another outdated tradition)

 

[chrisd]

Dodger. (sticking with another outdated tradition)

But at least you had the decency to follow it Dodger!


Chris

 

[CMAC]

cant read 14 pages but I assumed all members were equal in a not-for-profit GC where there is no hierarchy but only officers of the club that were treated with greater aplomb, but no one man or lady is a greater member than anyone else.
I always give respect to these people for taking the unpaid time to run my course so I can enjoy playing the game I love.........as long as they show equal respect to their members

 

[Oddsocks]

To those that feel respect must be earned, if someone who'd never met you came up to and treated you like ..... you'd kick off. Everyone should have a level of respect afforded to them and whether that goes up or down depends on their behaviour - no one starts at a base level and must earn every ounce.

Then there's the committee that blindly enforces the rules/traditions. Sometimes a blind eye for an archaic rule or tradition until it can be changed at an AGM is the best way forward. "Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the adherence of fools."

I like these two paragraphs

 

[Snelly]

One interesting question I have been meaning to ask is whether any of the traditional guys use GPS?

Also, I wear cargo type trousers on the golf course and have done at plenty of swanky courses this past couple of years without incident.

No I don't use a GPS but that is not to say that I won't in future.

In addition, I think broomhandle putters should be banned. Adjustable drivers are a waste of time. If you are fit and healthy then you should carry your clubs. You should shower and change into a different set of clothes to go into the bar. The benefits of custom fitted clubs are miniscule. Everyone should have to put £100 on their club card in January. White golf shoes are unacceptable. Mixed golf is for pensioners. A round of golf should not take more than 4 hours. No-one needs more than 3 wedges. Pre-shot routines are mostly nonsense. Good golf doesn't come from buying the latest kit. Practice swings are unecessary. Jeans are a no-no. Golf clubs should feel like special occasion places. Cargo trousers are for tradesmen and adventurers, not golfers.

That is probably a good summation of my views but feel free to remind me of something else I have been unecessarily vexed about on this forum recently by all means!



PS forgot that you should always take your hat off in the clubhouse or when shaking hands at the end of a match.

Warm regards,


Snelly.

 

[lobthewedge]

Ive been a member of my club for 20 years in which time I have never heard of any of our Captains enforcing any playing rights based on their position.

Our club professional is the official starter, he controls who goes off the 1st tee, at what time and in what order, so if anyone tried to muscle in front of me without good reason other than their club title I would always refer back to the professional. If the starter asked me to step aside I would, but rest assured the Captain would get told what I think of him and his arrogance.